Was wondering if anyone has one of these? It appears there are two different varieties. Notice the ground under the horse carrying Ms. Godiva, there are two different surfaces and the milling on the elephant side of the coins. Here is an example of each for your review and comment if you are inclined to do so. Plus, an ebay link which supports this observation. Thanks for looking http://coins.search-completed.ebay.com/1793-coventry_Coins-Paper-Money Take Care Ben
First comment is that the original date (1792) has seven different dies (Warwickshire 231-7). Second comment is that according to Seaby's `British Tokens and their values' (1970), the 1793 tokens (Warwickshire 238-245) also appear to have seven different dies and numerous edge varieties........all of which are noted as being counterfeits. Collectable none the less, but not so valuable as the 1792's. Ian
Thank you sir. That has cleared up quite a bit of muddy water, so-to-speak. As far as the 1792 goes, one must get what one can on this side of the pond Regards Ben
Contemporary counterfeits. Ian,the contemporary counterfeits are not only collectable,but some of them actually command a premium above that of an original issue piece.If someone offered me a contemporary counterfeit,I'd still collect it,because it was struck for use as a coin along with the original.That is not only true with the British Isles token issues,but the Canadian ones as well. Aidan.
Aidan, I don't know where you get that from in relation to the 1793 Lady Godiva tokens, the subject of this particular thread. All those lady Godiva tokens dated 1793 are counterfeits. All those dated 1792 are valued higher by collectors than those of 1793. I'm not aware of anything (market trend or catalogue wise) that would demonstrate to the contrary. Of course, there is nothing on earth preventing you from paying over the odds if you really want, but......... The reality is that the counterfeits are well known and catalogued. As such collectors will most likely want to collect them as part of the series as a matter of course. i know that I wouldn't throw any away! The other associated reality however is that their value is indeed *less* that that for 1792. Aidan, just go on collecting what ever you feel like collecting matey. It generally pays however to be able to differentiate bona fide from fake. What you care to do with the knowledge once so armed is entirely up to you.
Counterfeit, specious, muled, etc. This thread reminded me of an entry in one of R. C Bell's books. When referring to the token below, Bell wrote "...it is possible that this piece was struck for sale to unwary collectors, and is therefore suspect." If so, I thank both the scoundrels who produced and the unwary collectors who carefully preserved and passed along this treasure to me!
the floral work is so detailed, great token. Sometimes fakes are true works of art like the paduan medals...in fact many of the fakes on that list are very nice coins even though fake. I always want the real deal of course but I have seen many fakes or fantasy coins that are truely outstanding... http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/thumbnails.php?album=2&page=103
Yarm,that is a very nice piece.It wasn't only Kempson who issued tokens for sale to unwary collectors.Skidmore also did the same thing,as a lot of his tokens turn up with a lot of lustre.They're still very interesting anyway. Aidan.
When I first saw that token type (years ago) I was puzzled by the use of the Scottish motto `nemo me impune lacesset' . The sleeping lion provides the imagery for the legend. What did Mr Bell have to say about any of that? Ian
According to Bell... "Nemo Me Impure Lacesset * (No one shall hurt me with impunity) appears on many silver, billon and copper Scottish coins from the time of James VI and is the motto of the Order of the Thistle. Here it probably applies to the sleeping lion and the proprietor of the token, who is thought to be a relative of Peter Kempson, though it is possible that this piece was struck for sale to unwary collectors, and is therefore suspect." *Wha daur meddle wi' me?!! (Highland Brigade version) Wyon and Kempson teamed up to produce some terrific tokens!
The motto (apart from the mis-spell of Impune) has been translated a number of different ways in the past ranging from (substituting) `touch', `provoke', and `disturb' for `hurt'. The gist of the message is much the same whichever wording is used. That is a particularly beautiful token and I would be happy for it to have been `Scottish'. Perhaps the `unwary collectors' on this occasion were. ;-)
The top one is a D&H 240 and the lower one is D&H 242. Rarities vary greatly depending on the edge inscription. The are edge varieties of both of these that are common, and there is a variety of 240 and two of 242 which are Rare, and one of 242 which is extremely rare (7 - 12 "known")
