Very Fine?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by benveniste, Jul 18, 2022.

  1. benveniste

    benveniste Type Type

    I have a search set up at fleaBay for "lazy deuce" notes, and this one came up today:

    The 20 grade on this note made me wonder about PMG's grading guidelines. Could someone with more experience with these issues school me?

    Here's what they say about a "20":
    The note is moderately circulated with numerous folds, mild soiling. There are no serious detractions but there may be minor defects.​

    I see this note as more of a "12":
    The evidence of circulation is considerable with rounded corners, margin splits and other issues. The note must be whole with solid paper.
    I'm more of an accumulator than a collector, and I'm looking for a deuce in this price range, but is this typical of what I should expect at this grade? Or is this "15" more in line?
    KSorbo and techwriter like this.
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  3. SteveInTampa

    SteveInTampa Always Learning

    I see your point. The F-15 Kansas note has tons more eye appeal than the VF-20 Michigan note.
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  4. Notaphylic_C

    Notaphylic_C Well-Known Member


    It, the "Lazy Deuce" may be authentic but for me its more of a Fine 15 NET as I see several spots where the design is missing along the deep creases. The top borders definitely look poorly trimmed (unless my eyes are playing tricks with me), there's an edge split on the top vertical border & a stain on the reverse (right side). If I were grading it, I would note: Trimmed & Stain on the reverse.

    The Kansas note looks more accurately graded at F15 than the 1865 $2 (IMO).
  5. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector Supporter

    I'm not familiar with grading older note, nor the values of the two shown.
    But based on coins I (and others) have noticed some trends.

    1. When were the notes graded?
    Standards have changed over time (grade inflation).

    2. What are the catalog values of the notes?
    More valuable items tend to get a more "generous" grade.

    Don't know if those are factors here.
  6. Notaphylic_C

    Notaphylic_C Well-Known Member

    Re: #1
    From what I have seen, the notes graded closer to 2005, when PMG grading was in its infancy, seem to be inconsistently assessed. (I'm sure it was tough for the co. to recruit qualified certifiers so its possible coin graders were taught to grade paper due to the staffing shortage). Anyway, the Sheldon scale standards seemed to have been unevenly applied to many notes I've seen. I've got nearly perfect notes from that era getting 64 or a 63 for being just slightly off centre (probably a 64 or 65 today). But I've also seen notes get generous # & no "Net," nor issues that would/may likely be stated on today's certification. I'm sure the demand is high for graders today so perhaps this is just my observation (& its always inconsistent). But I do suspect that PMG has gotten more consistent over the years (& its only been 18 years-imagine!). That's why the old saying still remains relevant: "buy the note/not the holder!"

    Re: #2
    Certifiers are people so I'm sure that there may be cases where a big dealer (or famous collector) submits a batch (or rare piece) & it gets "a friendly assessment." Some lower graded notes have been posted on our forums for one of our Canadian TPGS' & most collectors I know scratched their heads on the high # but I have seen him generous if he doesn't give an "Original" designation (PMG's "EPQ") on some of the lower assessed notes. A lot of collectors forget that once the EPQ has not been awarded (its authentic but no longer "Original") & it has been processed in some way (pressed, cleaned, etc) to make it appear better than it truly is.
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