Very deceptive counterfeit 1909-S VDB

Here is a very deceptive die-struck fake. I think it was made in the 1960's to 1970's from correspondence with the owner and the existence of old dirt on the edge of the coin. It looks like it was in an album for 30 years.

Don't ask me how I know, it just doesn't look like a new fake, like a Chinese one, for instance.

The owner just sent it to me. Upon opening the package it was obvious that it was "wrong". Here is the coin with a real 1909-S VDB. The difference? I guess I can say it didn't pass the "smell" test! It just didn't look right. Why? After another moment looking at it, I noticed that the rims were way too high. The portrait is too low in the die.


A real one is on the left. Notice on the fake, the field is dished. The die got concave in the die making process. So the field rises slightly in the center. There are other very subtle differences.
Lets look at the Mintmark:



This looks just like the real MM. This is where those who would OK this coin based on the MM would get taken. It is not an added S.
Next lets look at the edge:



You see very strong filing of the edge. This is very suspect. The fake when it left the dies likely had very sharp wire edges. This would have made anyone condemn it as a fake, so the counterfeiter had to file it down.
Now, I hope I have convinced everyone about the coin. But lets look at other things. On the reverse, off the O in ONE is a die flaw that is never seen on any genuine 1909-S VDB:




This is the ultimate smoking gun! It is much easier to know the diagnostics of an original than to know the diagnostics of every fake out there. No genuine 1909-S VDB has that flaw. This is a great diagnostic for this fake. A raised lump is a depression on the die. This depression in the die is not fixable by the counterfeiter, so unless he remakes the die, all fakes from this die will have this defect.

Over by the E in E PLURIBUS is a lint depression. These may be on the die (they would be raised) or are a strike-through made when the counterfeit was struck. Regardless, when did you ever see a 1909-S VDB with a lint strike-through? Sure, it could happen, but it is very odd.
Here are some more. Also, notice how low the relief of Lincoln is.





Here is the VDB with more depressions:



There is a small lump just off the tip of the base of the wheat ear. This is not known on genuine pieces.

I hope I have helped the cent collectors out there.

 

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Great post. Very informative. I wouldn't have known it was a fake if you didn't say so.

 

Thanks for getting that up here on CT.

The coin just looks " wrong " to me, but that mintmark is scary accurate and would easily deceive those that go by that alone, as the die chip is so very close to the real thing.

Various strike thru's, the relief as mentioned, the raised areas all add up.
Very good post !!

Thanks Rick.

 

Someone spent some time making that. Now, let me ask you a question. The first thing that caught my eye was the coloring. Was that thing artificially aged?

 

It is a pretty obvious fake IMHO.
Very good informative post. :thumb:

 

Excellent post, Rick. I agree - it is important what a genuine coin should look like. That is an excellent counterfeit that would fool a large number of collectors and dealers.

 

That's one helluv a counterfeit! The first thing I noticed was the relief, it doesn't look right. The mint mark is VERY well done, right down to the die chip. It's much more impressive than the added mint mark fake that I own.

 

Position alone right off the bat tells you this is not genuine

 

hehehehe...yea, it obvious for that and many more reasons. The funny thing, the dealer I talked into selling me this counterfeit (at a counterfeit price) didn't realize until he got it back from NGC in a body bag. LOLOLOLOLOL :goofer:

 

I thought there were 4 know positions for the MM???? Is that true?

 

Excellent post! Brings a little more to attention for us novices. Just another reason to not buy high end unless it's slabbed. IMHO

 

Yes, there are 4 genuine obverse dies for the 1909-S VDB heres a pic of them....
edited - copyrighted material

 

Thread bookmarked, thanks for the post.

 

Great thread , the MM , even the the diagnol line in the B of VDB , that's why you should only buy rare coins slabbed or through a reliable dealer , or research what you're buying 100 % .
rzage

 

My picture is from " The Authoritative Referance on Lincoln Cents " by John Wexler and Kevin Flynn. This book is a serious must have that should sit right next to the David Lange book for all serious Lincoln collectors. Out of print and difficult to locate, but worth any premium you might have to pay. A solid, solid book.

 

That is very good information especially for me as a new collector. This would be a great thread of the week. Ice

 

Awesome post!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300292923953&_trksid=p2759.l1259

This looks like another one!

 

Unfortunately Picture #3 does not agree with the description. The top of the S does not line up with the bottoms of the 9s. The left side of the S does not line up through the space between the 9 and the 0. The right side of the S hits the right side of the opening in the 0. In fact the Picture #3 agrees with the description under picture #4.

Either there are only three MM varieties, or the book has the wrong picture #3. A steroscopic comparison of pictures #3 and 4 show they are the same - maybe not the same picture or coin, but two identical examples..

 

The "S" on the counterfeit is a little "thinner" so to speak. This coin would have fooled me and many, many other people. The angle on the "D" and "B" appear to be correct in the "VDB". My only question is how was it counterfeited especially in the 1960's or 70's?

Harry