I have red on here that if you pay RED BOOK price for coins you over paid, that people on Ebay pay too much, yet when I see coins offered that have been graded by the top TPG's they are always double or more RED BOOK and I seldom see quality raw coins go for less than RED BOOK price on Ebay. I admit I have never paid RED BOOK price for any coin, but I have lost a lot of auctions because of being stubborn. I also look at ads in Coin magazines and unless a dealer is running a special they will be priced above RED BOOK. I honestly don't care about the price if I want it and can afford it, but I just can't figure out how Price Guides, Auctions, and Dealer ads come up with their prices when they are for the most part not even close to each other. I hope this isn't another one of those talked to death post I have just started again, but I am curious and you folks know what is going on. Thanks Kent
Good question Kent, one that raises all sorts of issues. The Red Book and magazines will only report of selected grades, you cannot extrapolate the values of in-between grades easily. The best price reference points for me have been the Greysheet (Coin Dealer Newsletter), you can buy these one issue at a time on line at cdn.com. Do take notice of the fine print at the bottom of the first page of each issue. Other good resources are the auction web sites. You can join these for free, but you get access to the completed auction pricing. A few quick searches and you can get some valuable price references. eBay completed auctions can also be searched for free. With all that said, there are still more issues. Take any coin graded by a major Third Party Grader (TPG), there are differences in coins all graded the same grade by the same TPG, let along between TPG's. There really is a range, what a single price reference in a book or a web site won't tell you where that specific coin fits within that range. My message is research, research, and then research some more. When all is said and done you will still find someone willing to pay well above any historical price reference because they really WANT that one coin. But at least you'll be equipped to recognize that crazy bid, and not to be taken in by a unrealistilly high asking price. Good Luck
It depends on the coin and guide. Some coins will go for more than guide prices, many more go for less, again depending on the coin and the price guide. See what real coins sell for at auction, at retail, and also if possible at wholesale, and that will give a person a good indication. Also see what coins are available all the time, and which are truly difficult to find. There is no rule of thumb for all coins, it varies, depending on the series, the date, the price guide used, and again on the availability. If a person finds that Redbook is consistently way under what the coins they are interested in are selling for at auction and at retail, that is useful information. If that trend holds for a length of time, with many data points, it is probably good information. Learning about pricing and availability generally takes some time, a lot more time than just looking up a price in a guide (any guide), or on any one auction site. A person interested in expensive coins would do well to invest some time in the learning (as well as learning how to grade).
Good question Kent. This will make a good reference thread for someone in the future. I really like pennyguys advise. Everything generally has a range. For example, the redbook lists a 1935 MS-63 Peace dollar at a price of 120.00. NGC lists one at 115. A magazine I get monthly puts one at 120.00. I got one at a show last year for 125.00. This just happens to be one I've followed closely for whatever reason. So you can see the range. Knowing this, you would know if you found one for 100.00, you probably won't find another one cheaper. Or, if it's priced at 140.00, that's a little high and should be passed up or negotiated down. FWIW, there are no rules on ebay. We were just talking about it the other day in another thread. It was agreed that Ebay has raised the value of low dollar, poor quality coins and lowered the value of rarer nicer stuff. Reason being, if a Good coin is valued at $5, it's nothing to have someone bid it up 3 to 4x that amount and pay $20 for it because it's not that much more. They just want to win it even though they will grossly overpay. On the other hand, Ebay makes locating rarer, slabbed coins easier. Higher dollar stuff tends to have a much smaller pool of people interested or that can afford it at any given time. Therefore buyers expect a deep discount on more expensive stuff. You have to decide what you're willing to pay for a coin based on how bad you want it. You should not feel chained to a price guide in order to feel satisfaction about a purchase. It seems as though people focus more on how 'good of a deal' they get on something more than the actual coin itself. If it's premium quality, dont be afraid to pay. The guides can't possibly cover the broad ranges of quality within individual grades. They're just guides that will show you a range that is most likely in the ballpark. There really aren't many loose, high quality coins on ebay worth chasing. My perspective of what's on there has really changed over the past year. Now almost everything I look at looks like a cleaned, problem or low grade, low eye appeal coin. I have paid more than red book on buy it nows just to get some stuff that was at least above average. Such as a barber series coin with most of Liberty left in the head band. There aren't many on there. People who say they look to only purchase stuff at 15-20% below Red book, while a novel goal, truth be told, probably aren't buying much. The best deals I've gotten have been at coin shows. I highly recommend them. You will get the most for your money and cut out shipping.
I knew you all could explain it to me. i felt there were people who were feeding their ego by saying look what I won. I am not trying to give the impression of being cheap but most of the coins I am bidding on I don't need I just want them so I am not willing to go overboard when bidding, I also try to grade them with the pictures provided and don't bid over what I think they should grade. I have paid more for coins I needed for a set or ones that realy appealed to me. The explanation you all have given is great and I hope it helps others to understand what I think you are saying, do your research, learn what to look for, be patient, and if you need it go for it (well I threw that part in myself). Thanks Kent
One way of looking at the prices in the Red Book are that since it comes out over a year in advance, 2010 Edition has been out since April 2009, it may well be that Whitman antisipates a growth in the values of coins so that by the time their Red Book has the same date as the year, the prices may be a little more realistic. Many other price guides have similar problems. The PCGS web site price listing is basically set so high that you think you have valuable coins and send them to them for grading. If they had a realistic value set on coins, there would be dramatic drop in their buisness. Many dealers like to use the grey sheet for prices but those too are just guesstamates of what a coin may or may not be worth. It is the ones mostly used at coin shows though. Auction prices on any auction is usually overpriced due to silly individuals that get caught up in a buying frenzy. Also, many auctions have ringers that bid on items to jack up the prices. If the ringer wins, that item goes back up in the near future. Supposed to be illigal but then again, so is murder but that too continues anyway. There just ain't no real price list for coins. They are what you pay.
AND, you get to look at the coin in hand before making a decision - most critical and satisfying. I agree with Vess that going to a show where 100s of dealers can be shopped for an appealing coin is the best experience. Also, viewing Heritage lots and attending a live auction when at the show can bring a nice coin at a reasonable cost (particularly when Heritage pics are exceedingly poor, driving away competing on-line bidders).
I have the 2009 Red book and just got the 2010. For most everything I looked at, the prices really did not change that much. I'd go as far as to say 9 out of 10 coins I look up have no change. Once in a while there may be a change of 5 to 10 bucks one way or the other. I have not found any significant changes. The argument that the book is dated so fast doesn't make much sense to me. Prices just don't change all that much over a short period of time unless bullion values change significantly. Prices in other price guides don't seem to change very much either. Some people act like 5 to 10 year price changes are happening on an annual basis and they're just not for the vast majority of what the average collector is interested in or can afford. 5 digit priced coins may be a different story.
