UHR vs MS 66 Saint

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UHR vs MS66 Saint

So given the choice which would you go with? Price wise the UHR is 2850, the 66 Saint is pretty much the same. Do the prices sound in line. Having learned that grades are often times questionable, assuming it was a true 66 saint, would you choose the St or the UHR. I ask this, as this is one more coin i can put in the coffer for the next gen while i get to appreciate the beauty in the mean time. I'm turning to the collective knowledge and opinions here for your views. I'm sort of a sucker for history but thing the uhr is exceptional. After my 64 St. post, it seems asking is probably a good idea as one can only get so much from reading and the web doesn't have a lot on one vs the other but the knowledge here runs deep.

 

I personally would go for the Saint in 66. Though the UHR is nice I would rather have the history and I would guess the population for the Saint in 66 would be far less than then number of UHR's but that's not knowing the year of the st.

 

Most 66 Saints are way higher. But, okay...a common one.

I'd trade my UHR FS for a nice PCGS 66 Saint. As much as I love it, classic trumps modern every time.
Lance.

 

Well that's interesting man. I guess i could sit on it. What's your reasoning behind it? However after that 08 no motto thread, i'm hooked on these things, they are so nice. Buying would ultimately be for appreciation but i wouldn't be the one enjoying that, it'd be the kids. I honestly have a hard time choking out the cash for the UHR, however wouldn't bat an eye on the St. assuming it's a true 66 as you guys made pretty clear earlier. The cost for a 66 is considerably higher than the lower grades. This is a fun hobby.

 

I've been waiting ten years for the price of the 2001 Buffalo commem' to drop.........

 

and then there is this train of though...which i'm sure we've all been sucked into.

That buffalo is very different from a st. though and i don't just mean ag vs au

Do any of you know blue sheet on a 66 and 67 for this week?

 

Ya think? I was just commenting on Dougs' outlook on moderns which typically display the characteristics in the aftermarket that he described

 

Doug has experience but he has a "glass half empty" outlook on coins. Both sides will be right some of the time and nobody has a crystal ball. If you buy a 66 Saint and it drops $1k in the next year, can you live with yourself? Personally, I think metal prices are going to help buoy numismatic values as the years go on. Probably increase them for the most part as they already have. But its your money. You dont have to believe me.

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I want the bottom to fall out on these suckers.......

Though, I daresay the folks that bought 'em high don't want that happening.

 

Wow. great chart there Doug. Thanks for posting that.

I think is interesting that in the time frame of that chart gold has approximately doubled while the index has gone down. That just means that the numismatic component of value has to be dropping faster than implied by the graph since the intrinsic value has been rising. I would have thought a market trend like this would have been discussed around here more widely but anything gold never seems to move much beyond the price of bullion.

The other thing that jumped out at me was the same chart back to 1970. 10,700% return for a very respectable 11.7% annual rate of return.

Neat stuff!

 

blatant: Try not to get sucked into a coins for investment discussion when making this decision. The simple answer for you is to buy both of them.

You clearly have an interest in both and if you haven't the money for both right now, then pick one and start saving for the next. What you 'invest' in them is time spent researching a coin that appeals to your aesthetic interests and will bring you joy owning and admiring for years to come. You have already established grade in one coin and an approximate understanding of the money you may need to get started with obtaining the coins. From what you have said so far, it doesn't sound so much like which route to take as much as which one to take first for obtaining both examples of these coins.

You don't need to sit and hope for a bottom that may never come or obsess focused on having made the wrong choice of when to jump in because the value continues to drop after you buy. Many people who invest in markets loose a lot of time and opportunity employing the wait-and-see strategy. For some investments the wait-and-see approach is costlier than knowing they bought something of value. Based on some of these comments, it wouldn't matter how long you waited to buy. If you wait four or ten years, when will you ever know when it's finally worth fulfilling your desire to own the coin? That advice is just against buying coins, which you are doing for your collection not an investment. The argument over appreciation value was foisted on you from the start here. Recognize that isn't helping you obtain the coins you seem to want in your collection.

Also, you don't have to put up with silly "almost inevitably" phrased reasoning to support that perspective. What's not going to happen with either coin is constant chart movement in one direction or the other. Coins can simply be tracked going up and down and follow different trends and market fluctuations.

You have expressed your interest in two coins which should bring you and your family many years of enjoyment. They are both popular and handsome coins known very well by the collecting community. They are also coins with an intrinsic metal value that is one thing that the current or future value of precious metals coins seems to never drop below.

My advice is to stick to your personal budget, obtain both when your financial situation allows for it and only buy the very best quality you can afford.

I hope that helps your decision making and that you will post pics once you get your new coins. That's my 2¢ :smile

 

Very Limited Choices!

Hmm, very interesting choices! For me, it's analogous to asking Cauliflower or Spinach. While both are reported to have great nutritional value, I'll take peas!

Given just those choices, for numerous reasons, I'd select the MS66, with the caveat that you purchase the best certified coin for the money (i.e. economical common date).

I prized the 2009 UHR design, rewarding all who were interested, with a 10% cash premium to order the UHRs for me when it was issued. Having obtained/held the coins until their value virtually doubled, I then ultimately sold them on craigslist for 10% less than eBay market value. I made many wonder about my sanity. I have a bias concerning future potential for this coin.

In my opinion, there are 2 generic "sleepers" in the St. Gaudens series. The coins are the 1916-S and the 1923-D. If you could somehow locate them for the generic MS66 prices. I would suggest acquiring either of them, but place greater potential on the 1916-S. In this declining market for higher grade Double Eagles, with patience/perseverance you may eventually be able to locate one of these gems at generic (e.g. 1924 date) pricing.

What I believe to be a better investment is as in this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-D-Saint-Gauden-Gold-20-Double-Eagle-MS63-NGC-/280809532692?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item41618d6d14
purchasing one these coins at a competitively priced grade. It has been my experience that this grade/date for numerous reasons will outperform a common generic which has a significantly higher grade. If you were able to acquire the 2 dates recommended, in this linked grade, I would significantly wager that after a reasonable period your return on investment would exceed that of a common date MS66 Double Eagle.

Just my humble opinion, worth at least the amount paid. Rich :thumb:

 

Ok, are we comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges? If that index includes gold coins that were $10k+, then your statement holds true and they may have had huge fluctuations driving the line down.. In that same time period, not rare MS gold coins that were $700 are $1400 now. Then I'm right.
Do UHRs and MS-66 St. Gauden's fall under the rare category? I haven't looked them up. He's not looking to buy a $10k+ gold coin with huge numismatic value "available" to fluctuate.
My thoughts were that if he can purchase one or the other for around $3k, that in 10 years from now that may not be far from what the melt values would be. There's guaranteed inflation coming. The govt will not allow a deflationary collapse. The printing presses will trump deflation. They will shovel money out of helicopters before they let it collapse. They will type more digits into their computers. Which will also devalue their own debts.
I'm just saying the writing is on the wall. If anybody doesn't think it is, if you think the govt will get it's finances in order soon, then you should sell all gold now. At the level of purchasing the OP is considering, I don't see that much risk for loss (though there is some). The big gains may also take 50 years though. Which apparently is all he's looking for.

 

probably the most accurate i've read. You are definitely onto something.