Two inscribed coins, need a native German speaker

Picked up a pair of these "love tokens" inscribed on German Empire coins. As is often the case, the straight technical translation from Google doesn't make complete sense. I could really use some insight from a native speaker.

First: 1887 pfennig, inscription:

"Ein Sehelm der mehr giebt alser hat"

Second: (1877)F 50 pfennig, SM (or MS) monogram surrounded by inscription:

"ES IST BESTIMMT IN GOTTES RAT" "MUSS SCHEIDEN" "DASS MAN VOM LIEBSTEN" "WAS MAN HAT" (uncertain of correct order)

Much appreciated

 

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My German is rusty but I think the one on the left says:
"One sees him as giving more than he has"

The one on the right with the loop,
"It is specific in Gods advice,
Of a mans things, his favorite,
He must seperate/divorce"

I have some similar german medals, where the sentiments don't translate to our time, very well.

 

Thanks! The first one makes sense. Second one was particularly tough because the translation changed and still somewhat made sense if I moved the parts around in order.

 

First one says Schelm, not Sehelm.
Maybe @chrisild could help.

 

It's getting late here, so this is a quick and not exactly poetic translation. "Ein Schelm, der mehr gi(e)bt als er hat" means "Only a fool gives more than what he has". The (e) would not be used in today's German.

"Es ist bestimmt in Gottes Rat / dass man vom Liebsten / was man hat / muss scheiden" is a quote from a fairly well known poem and song, see here. The text was written by Ernst von Feuchtersleben; Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy composed the music. This roughly means "It is determined by God's advice that one must separate from the dearest that one has" ...

Christian

 

Thanks so much for the translation and historical context. I would have never though it was Schelm, the "c" looks exactly like all the other "e" letters.

 

Single characters are overrated.



Just looked this up - the saying "Ein Schelm, der mehr gibt als er hat" is attributed to either Paul Busson or Berthold Auerbach (late 19c/early 20c) but may of course be much older. A few centuries ago, the word Schelm was often used referring to somebody who, for example, did not pay his debt back or committed perjury. Later, in the 18th century or so, it got a less negative meaning.

Christian

 

I always appreciate and admire your contributions of deep and esoteric (to me) historical knowledge. Also, that mind trick thing is pretty amazing. The late, great Oliver Sacks would be proud

 

As long as I have a computer or smartphone at hand, I can look smart. In many regards I have a fairly superficial knowledge, but that is (often) a good starting point for further research.

(Or maybe it is what a writer once said about people from/in the Lower Rhine region: They do not know anything but can explain everything. )

Christian

 

As Penny once said on 'The Big Bang Theory", "My phone is as smart as yours."

 

I firmly believe that to be the definition of an expert. Not someone that has memorized a large volume of specific information, but someone that has an instinctive knowledge of where to look for that specific information, how to interpret it and how to put it in context