Among the coins that followed me home from the VNA show Saturday were these two small silvers. I have always wanted the first and the second ended up being interesting by raising more questions than it answered. I know less about the two coins now than I thought I did before. That is normal when you study questions with incomplete answers. It is easy to find experts with all the answers but they are not always the right answers. Metapontion, Lucania, 500-465 BC, Ar 7mm, 0.47g, grain/incuse of grain The big question on this small coin is the denomination. The seller flip was not made by the dealer at the show and called it "Tritartemorion" which means 3/4 obol. I remain unconvinced of the appropriateness of using terms matching those of the coins of Athens. I have seen similar coins listed as 1/24 stater which would be a stater of 11.28g which is much too high for this series. 1/16 might be reasonable. I was hoping to find help i the online Noe book but it listed none that small. http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan129962 I have a 1/3 stater at 2.58g which falls in the correct range which makes the 1/16 stater reasonable. I would like to know where to seek help on this. If I am in the dark regarding the proper name for the denomination, I am past hope for identifying what the seller ticket called an "object" obverse right. I guess it looks like a side view of a man seated but I suspect a random die break is closer. Some larger issues have grasshoppers in this position but there is so little published material on the little coins that I have seen, I know less than nothing. The same seller had another little coin with grain but this one is attributed to Tragilos in Macedon. It is called a hemiobol and, at 0.33g, would seem reasonable if that city used the names of Athens. The reverse has the letters TRIA and various ones I have seen change the order. How that relates to Tragilos, I do not know. I have enjoyed a website on the coins of Magna Gracia which navigates through strange maps and shows images taken from various sources. http://www.magnagraecia.nl/coins/Lucania_map/Metapontion_map/Metapontion.html Among the coins it shows for Metapontion is one of these trias? of Metapontion?, 5C BC? Obv. ear of barley Rev. incuse four squares, TRIA Noe - 0.37 g Auktionshaus H. D. Rauch GmbH Auction 79 (2006) 2057. Estimate: EUR 200 I see that I am not alone in not knowing. I like both coins and hope to figue out more about them with more research but will point out that we must not be too quick to jump to conclusions just because we read something in a book or online. If anyone would like to point me toward the latest word on these coins I would love to see it. I would hope such references would discuss the evidence that led to their final attributions. When we see something that claims to be definitive, we need to remember when we were in math class in school and the teacher required us to "Show your work." Catalogs and books published by professionals and amateurs need to be read with care. I have not seen and weighed enough coins to take this material as gospel especially when I see more than one expert making different calls on minor points.
Very interesting coins. Very old—at least 100 years before the conquests of Alexander the Great. Grain must have been very important to them—probably their key to existence.
Head of mule requires considerable imagination. I wonder if that description was a best guess based on published coins with clearer devices. It looks like a monkey or fetus to me but neither of those are likely . I see a few other Metapontion obols with vaguely similar objects which are called "ant?". The CNG coin you showed is clearly a double die match.
Nor do I, but Googling Tragilos brought up a page which showed the Greek spelling, Τράγιλος, so based on that spelling TRAI (or TPAI, as other examples of the coin show) seems a reasonable abbreviation. When and why did the Greek R ("P") become written as Latin R, and why is it mixed on coins of this issue?
Representing the trias denomination with something other than four dots in this period would be pretty surprising. The BM has a few examples around the same weight: one two three. They also have some bronzes with the same reverse: one two three (they have more). (I would question the early dating of the bronzes, 450-400. Surely not 450, anyway... the Sicilians were barely starting with bronze at that point, if at all.) If the BM attributes them to Tragilos I would assume it's backed up by hoard data... but you're right that it would be nice if they showed their work. I see the name is latinized as Traelium (see e.g. here, note there's a link to the Moushmov page with your coin, terrible image though). Does Greek have a silent gamma?
Great question!! Some of the BM examples have a "P." And one is just messed up: So maybe just an engraver's error...
Fantastic pick up Doug! I'm thrilled to add here one of my most recent purchases...though it's not in as great of shape as yours. I too share your confusion. Not just about the lettering on the reverse, but also why so many different versions have them in numerous different orders?? There was a wonderful post just a bit ago about the coins of makedon pre ATG and I'd been on the look out ever since. Here's my humble but vibrant piece! Macedon, Tragilos, c. 450-400 BC. AR Hemiobol (7.4mm, 0.28g, 6h). Grain ear. R/ Quadripartite incuse square; T-P-A-I in quarters. SNG ANS 903; SNG Copenhagen 446.
The OP second coin is Sear Greek 1470 from Tragilos, Macedonia. My coin, not the same, has the reverse lettering T R I A and is from Tragilos, Macedona. AR 8-7 mm. 0.225 grams. cluster of grapes SNG Copenhagen Macedonia 447 (with A and I reversed) Klein -- Sear Greek 1471 page 149 no photo but see 1470 for the reverse, which has the obverse of Doug's coin which is Sear Greek 1470.
I really like both of them but can't contribute any answers to the questions raised. It does look like a seated figure on the Metapontion obol, even on the CNG example.
It could be also just excess metal from a die break as suggested here: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3669095
