Trying to understand the brockage and strikes on this coin

This coin is a French 12 D from 1792.

It is clearly a flip over strike with broackage. My question is trying to understand the number of strikes and the broackages and how this all went down.

Hopefully my pics are better. I found an app for the iphone called MagLight which seems to work better than the standard camera app.

So here goes... the first strike gives the coin an obv and a rev. Then we flip over. There must still be a coin there however and that causes the broackage on the obv. The most obvious brockage is at the base of the bust. The brocakge shows the bottom of the bust and the BB mint mark in negative on the coin.

The odd this is on King Louis forehead. You can see in broackage the right side of the u then the I an S of LOUIS. To me... if I am right about the origin of the broackage and I think I am... LOUIS should not be on his forehead... there must be yet another strike somehow to do that.... or am I wrong?

Its a bit of a puzzle only fellow error geeks could love.... am I right wrong or is there another explanation?

I hope the photos do this justice..
Gary

 

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Oh, sorry, the other question I have is.... Do you think the coin also has a clip?

Double or triple struck
Flip Over
Broackage
Clip

A very busy coin...

 

here is the coin with no errors..... though a different mint.. the "D" mint is Lyon, where BB is Strasbourg

 

the possible clip....

 

Let's see the label..

 

Here you are.

 

Your photos are still a bit dark,
but it seems that NGC got it right.

 

I am less sure they got it right..... Recall how badly they botched the other flip over strike I showed you earlier this morning? Questions remain in my mind....

The questions here are:
Is there really a clip?
Was there a third strike?

Maybe I am wrong... I dont know.... that is why I am asking others.

Thanks for looking
Gary

 

It looks like there is an "A I S" (or "S I A") across Louis' forehead, and that doesn't correspond to any part of the legend on either side of the coin.

Chris

 

Hi Chris
Thanks for taking a look. Yes, I too am confused... I was guessing it was the right hand part of the U in LOUIS..... maybe there is more other noise.... I agree it is less than clear.... but CLEARLY... something is there...

Any opinions on the clip idea?
Gary

 

Also recall Chris.... you are seeing this in "negative" as this is a broackage....

 

Nope! Your image is too dark and blurry, and the follow-up photo showing the entire NGC slab offers no help either.

Chris

 

I took that into consideration, but it still doesn't make sense. There is no letter combination, SIA or AIS, anywhere on the coin. Maybe it happened after the coin was struck. I don't know.

Chris

 

because it is not an A, look closely, it is not an A. Hair details to the right (side of what appears as the A) may make it look like an A, but the left side is radically thicker... calling it an A makes no sense to me... I think we are seeing merged details that make it difficult.

 

You are tossing too many "ifs" into the equation, and the more "ifs" there are, the further we get from the truth. We'll just have to agree to disagree!

Chris

 

@cpm9ball
The plot thickens.... I ran with your idea.... I sorted out there is a difference between the Lyon and the Strausbourg mints obverse of the coin.... The AIS is in FRANCAIS

 

Which I think.... solves the riddle... it is consistent with the rest of the brockage that it is where it is!

 

I knew I wasn't crazy! Thanks for letting me know. Now, I can cancel the appointment I made with the psychiatrist.

Chris

 

one that shows both sides.... NOW,.. I need an opnion on the clip... ANYONE?

 

Thanks again Chris... any thoughts on the clip or non clip as the case may be?