Florence, Italy (1189 - 1532) was the first city to mint its own gold coins which they named Fiorinos. Want to see a photo of a Fiorino? Let's go back in time to the Florence Mint (anytime during the years 1252 and 1303) when the Fiorino Stretto was struck (photo courtesy of coinarchives.com): (To view the Fiorino look at photo #1) http://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?search=Firenze+Repubblica&s=0&results=100 There were other names used for the gold coins of Florence. For a time the coin was called the Florence after the name of the city. Later it was referred to as the Floren. After the debut of Florence's Fiorino, other Italian cities started minting their own Fiorinos. Long after the mint at Florence was shut down Fiorinos circulated in Roman commerce and trade because of mintings by such Cities as Medici, Napoli, Tuscany, and, even, the Vatican. Thought you'd like to know... Clinker
Clinker: This is great info. In my early exposure to coin collecting as a kid when I first came across world coins and began to learn some things about identifying/naming them, I used to wonder what the word florin meant. It puzzled me seeing it in modern coin terms from the UK and Austrian florins to wondering if there was a link to all of these coins, including the Hungarian forint. Is the entomology or a disambiguation of the word 'florin' also related or rooted to the reference of the lily flower that appears on these Florentine coins you've linked to? Thanks! Great thread.
Florence is Firenze in Italian, and the coat of arms of the city is a stylized lily, what we call a fleur de lys or fleur de lis. (Fleur in French means "flower" and lys/lis means "lily.") The fleur de lys is associated both with French royalty and Florence. The word fiorino literally means "little flower" in Italian, from fior "flower" + ino, a diminutive ending. (One of the characters in Mozart's opera Cosí Fan Tutte" is named Fiordiligi, Italian for fleur de lys.) I don't know if the relation between the flower symbol and the denomination named fiorino is a direct one, but linguisticallly it appears to be quite similar to why we call our $10 gold pieces eagles ... after the reverse design, a fior, fiorino, or fiordiligi.
After florins largely disappeared in Britain, the gulden in Holland continued to be referred to as a florin up until the intro of the Euro in 2002. When I was there in 2001 you still saw stuff priced in HFL.
Makes sense as "florin" and "gulden" basically refer to the same origin. When the fiorino d'oro that Clinker shows us here (interesting post, thanks! ) became known and to some extent used in Bavaria and Tyrol for example, people called the piece "gulden(er)" - the golden one. The name was then used for many coins of that kind. In the Netherlands before the euro, people would not call a gulden a florin in spoken language. But it was pretty common, as you wrote, to see the "f" or "(h)fl" abbreviation. Aruba on the other hand, an autonomous part of the Kingdom (near Venezuela), actually had and has "florin" coins. And yes, the Hungarian forint is also derived from fioriono ... Christian
For almost eleven years. (Or eight if you exclude the three first years when we still had the old cash.) Makes a lot of sense for a currency union to have the same cash. But if you want to collect something else, nobody keeps you from doing that. A nice fiorino d'oro might be a tad expensive though. Buy a winter coat. Or gloves. Or lots of glühwein, hehe. Christian
I am always on the lookout for something interesting, like this summer I got some Euro coins from Slovenia already. I'll probably never find a San Marino or a Monaco, but hope is eternal. I did save an Irish coin a couple of weeks ago, it was the first I had gotten from Ireland. But most of the time all I see are German coins, even in Netherlands or Austria. If I come across very nicely lightly circulated coins from Greece or Italy I will keep them - like the designs. Unfortunately the circulation coins of Germany don't interest me. I still like the commems though.
The Delphi Method Actually, as nice as the florin/fiorino is, it is not the "first gold coin issued by a city." A group hug does not change the facts of history. Athens issued gold coins. The entire Greek social complex was based on the city. Not until Athens forced the Delian League could you argue for "federal" coinages, though many others are known from the 200s and 100s BCE. So, there are other city-issued ancient Greek gold coins. The problem of "electrum" is not addressed. Technically, even modern US Gold coins of the 1800s -- and especially the UK Sovereign -- are "electrum." So, really, "gold" coins issued by cities go back to Miletos and Ephesos and the other Ionian towns. Then, there is the problem of Rome. Was it a "city"? Also, during the Roman Republic, gold coins were issued -- Sear 1-20. See some listed here: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/sear5/i.html You might argue that the coins of a king are his and not his kingdom's (city's), but that opens the question of whether only a democratic city could be said to issue coins on its own authority. Kings and emperors aside, Carthage was ruled by a committee or oligarchy of merchants, as was Florence. Carthage, gold stater. c.350 BC, Carthage Mint, Bust of Tanit left, wreathed with corn, wearing triple-drop earring and necklace of 8 pendants. / Horse standing right, group of three pellets before. Carthage, 370-320 BCs, Gold (Electrum) Stater. Head of Tanit left, wreathed with corn / Horse standing right. Tarentum Gold Obol http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=320138&AucID=575&Lot=10 Obol circa 334-333, AV 0.70 g. Facing head of Helios. Rev. ΑΛ / ΕΞ Thunderbolt. Vlasto 1864. SNG ANS 976. Fischer-Bossert Beilage 4,4. That above from the time of Alexander the Molossian, a general hired by the city. If you reject that has his coin, not the city's then consider these. http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=316387&AucID=569&Lot=145 http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=320151&AucID=575&Lot=23
Hi mmarotta... ...and I personally want to thank you for all the time you put in posting and sharing your knowledge on this subject. It seemsI need to take more time between posts in researching my trivia articles so they do not present unconfirmed information as facts. I certainly do not want to mislead any Coin Talk members or visitors... Clinker
Well the fiorino article is interesting in its own right, whether it was the "first" or not ... Thanks Clinker and hi back atcha.
I've gone back over all my research and it all (18 sources) reiterates that Florence was the first city to mint its own, for circulation, gold coin. However, I do not dispute mmorata's posting. Clinker
Guess this is a little bit like saying Columbus discovered America. No, he did not, it had been there before with people living there - and yet his discoveries helped establishing a constant "link" across the Atlantic Ocean. Similarly, in medieval Europe hardly anybody used gold coins. The Merovingians had made quite a few, but after that it was basically silver only. Then, when "international trade" and cash became more important again (13c), the fiorino d'oro met a "new" demand. Maybe that is why it is called the "first" city gold coin ... Christian
