Trade Dollar Grade

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Sting 60, Nov 25, 2023.

  1. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    I don't think this Trade Dollar will straight grade because of what looks like graffiti on the back. What grade would you give it anyway? attachment1700942177436.jpg attachment1700942208100.jpg Regards.
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  3. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    AU Details - Altered Surfaces (and the mentioned graffiti)
    Mr.Q, Sting 60 and Rheingold like this.
  4. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    and harshly cleaned as bonus ;)
    Sting 60 likes this.
  5. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Looks A/U 55 to me and of course details
    along with the above mentioned.
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  6. lardan

    lardan Supporter! Supporter

    I agree, but It is still a beautiful coin.
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  7. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it's a real shame about that graffiti. A friend of mine paid $325 for it. I wouldn't even have bid on it because it just looks cleaned.
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  8. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Very nice-looking coin. EF-40 could easily be higher. Good luck.
    Sting 60 likes this.
  9. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    I’m seeing a bit of porosity. My main concern would be whether it gets into a slab at all.
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  10. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    That is an odd looking coin. The surfaces have been messed with in some way; I suspect whizzing ( looks like some built up metal against the upside of Liberty's outstretched arm and her right leg) The dark circles around the stars are indication enough that it's been cleaned.
  11. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Harshly cleaned or polished. But I believe real.I’d say au details
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  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    :troll: Tough Love :bigtears: Dept:

    Look at the surface behind Liberty's arm. The coin is WHIZZED. It is not cleaned, or harshly cleaned, or polished. Altered surface is also a poor substitute. The little lumps on Liberty's are are die chips. They are commonly seen in this location and on the outside of the eagle's wings.

    Words mean something so I apologize for hurting any feelings or coming off as a :cigar: know-it-all. NOW, I don't expect to get any comments from any little snowflakes who don't like my tone.

    PS Note that there is a change of color around the scratches. That indicates the surface is depressed a little (reflects light differently). Someone tried to remove them or make them less severe and then whizzed the coin to cover up the repair.

    A coin this bad is hard to authenticae with images alone but chances favor it being genuine.
  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    The surfaces have been altered so it’s a AU details at best. Shame about the coins surface and the graffiti. It’s looks like someone tried to bump the coin up to MS so I agree with @Insider.
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  14. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Well-Known Member

    My grading ability is poor so I can't comment on grade. Cleaned or whizzed definitely. Details coin, yes. I like mine with chop marks, many chop marks, that prove it did what it was intended to do.
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  15. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Here's an oddity. NGC calls this "details" but PCGS grades it as a variety (chop marks) xf40, and it passed CAC scrutiny as well? 1875 CC T$1 w chops CAC PCGS xf40.jpg
  16. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    Thanks all for the comments. Much appreciated. Regards.
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  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    No surprise, read on.This is what's been going on over the years. Chop marked coins were considerd to be damaged, inferior junk. Back then, I cherried an AU S/CC for either $30 or $40 dollars (I don't remember - it could even have been a little over $20 (I still own it) The coin was in a pyramid pile of at least 150 chopped Trade dollars.

    At the first TPGS (INSAB) we graded them and added chopmarked. Thus, AU-55, Chopped. It was considered to be "Technical Grading." Grade the coin for its condition of preservation and add any modifiers that were needed to describe it. Thus a virtually flawless, flashy Morgan dollar with a very flat strike was considered to be a flatly struck gem. It was not worth "gem" money but technical grading had nothing to do with placing a value on a coin.

    Chop marked coins were considered to be damaged and not sutible for grading by the newer services - PCGS and NGC. I don't remember how ANACS (the second TPGS) handled these coins. Following PCI's lead, the other TPGS realized that bodybaging a coin and keeping the grading fee was cousing grief. Finally, the other TPGS's started to grade problem coins. It still took a little while for Chops to be considered OK. When I first started working at ICG we put Choped coins into "detail" slabs. As these coins became popular we now straight grade them and add Chopped to the label. That's what all the TPGS do now.

    :jawdrop::facepalm: Full circle and ahead of its time :cigar: dept: Present day "Detail Grading" (if warrented) is EXACTLY what we did at the first TPGS almost thirty-five years ago! :D;)
  18. mbogoman

    mbogoman Active Member

    To put it bluntly, your friend overpaid. That coin's problems, as detailed above, cannot be overlooked. Sending it in for grading would be a waste - good money after bad...
    ksparrow likes this.
  19. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    My understanding is that coins like this one with a single well placed chop mark on one or both sides, and otherwise fully original, are especially desirable. I have a non-chopped straight graded Trade Dollar in my collection, and would love to also have a problem free chopped one. Some still consider chops to be damaged, but it is something with historical significance. As opposed to other damage like whizzing or scrubbing with a Brillo pad.

    Like @mbogoman I think the price paid for a raw coin that has been seriously messed with seems quite high.
    Mainebill and fiddlehead like this.
  20. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but I vote counterfeit. I don't care for the lettering on the reverse at all. It looks thick and amateurish.

    Here is a genuine graded piece of the same date and mint that is in an MS-63 holder.

    1877 S Trade Dol O.jpg 1877 S Trade Dol R.jpg
    Mainebill likes this.
  21. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    The OP’s coin has the mint mark farther to the right than yours. The mint mark also appears to be a little different as well.
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