Topic: Daniel Carr's Fantasy Coinage. AKA: Bikeracks. After school.

I am a fan of Carr's fantasy coinage series. I think he has done a wonderful job with the line, and I own a premium 1910 Indian business strike, which I love.

Every time the topic comes up, when someone excitedly posts their latest acquisition that happens to be one of these coins, the thread gets hijacked.

I hereby create this thread, solely for the purpose of hosting the argument.

Here we go: "I own and love my 1910 Indian cent. I believe it to be a skillfully crafted piece of modern exonumia, produced by one of the greatest engravers of our generation. Carr is explicit in the sale of these coins, describing them as fantasy pieces and not as legal tender."

Flame on. [emoji12]

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You think he's talented. I think he's wasting his talent, and that is being overly polite.

Chris

 

No pics? Booooring...

 

No flaming - just not my cup of tea. So collect them if you like - and enjoy them.

 

I think these so called copies will cause trouble down the road with new collectors finding them and thinking they hit the jack pot. Or unscrupulous people selling them as the real deal . Yes I know the old argument that Daniel markets them for what they are , but this couldn't of happened or happen if he never made this junk to begin with . He's a talented man who should stick with his own designs . As most artists know the design is sometimes the hardest thing to come up with . Copying others work is not art that's why it's called copying . Also it seems any coin is fair game like your 1910 Indian . That dime in the other thread is stretching any credibility I think he had with say a '64 Peace . What;s next a 1874 2 cent piece , 1921-O Morgan , heck pick any year after any series stopped and I'm sure we'll have a copy in a few years . Just my 2 cents .

 

My favourites are the 64 Franklin and the '65 Peace - those are bonafide fantasies. Another very lovely coin is the 1816 Bust Half.

 

I am staying out of this argument except to say I enjoy looking at his original pieces.

 

Camera and lens are in the mail. Pics to come!

 

I like them

 

I remember a day of defacing American money was illegal . A day when on TV and movies money couldn't be filmed or photographed. My issues aren't a personal attack against his work, as his token pieces are quite nice.
However......... stamping over U.S coinage to me is a crime .
A crime that any collector should recognize , and denounce. As collectors we cherish these little round disc.
We relate to the history they saw and that we as collectors now hold in our hands. Holding a coin to me means a lot,it means it is or was while in circulation legal tender.
Don't you ever think when holding a Morgan, a bust half who may of one time owned this? What's its story, and every coin has a story. Did it travel across this nation,did it slide across a bar to buy a nickel beer. Was it in the pocket of a soldier at Gettysburg , or given to a child as a special gift?
Every time a coin is destroyed so is a story. So is history,so is the chance another collector can be a part of that coins history.
I myself love art and appreciate it but art shouldn't forsake another art form for its existence .
My next issue is this...... and I can appreciate that one man's junk is another's treasure. But only time will tell as value is in the eye of the be holder . And only the test of time will tell if these over strikes will hold value.
When you look at a coins mintage you know for certain that number is it......there be no more minted.
With all respect to Mr. Carr he can make as many of his issues as he please. He can reissue, any time any amount he wishes.....what does that do for value?
An example artists like Picasso did reproductions for years. Yes some are worth a small fortune ,and others are just a bargain copy. Signed by him with a coa, and never hold value.
I'm not trying to tell a member or anyone what or what not to collect or spend their hard earned dollars on.
But when it comes to numismatics each coin to me is a survivor , a history to be passed on .......they are only ours for a short time,then property of another who has the right to enjoy the same pride in ownership and share the history.
History destroyed is history lost.

 

I know the man, not well but I've talked at length with him and I can tell you he is very meticulous about choosing which design to do an overstrike of. He cares deeply for this hobby!
And as to the argument of "in 50yrs it will confuse people" thats just pure poppycock! Who cares if someone has a temporary lotto feeling until they Google it (or whatever search engine is around then) and the first hit is "dan carr fantasy piece." His work will be very well known and valuable in their own right by then so they actually will be winning a small jackpot too... argument quashed!

 

Just read his own public comments via the FTC on what he thinks should be clarified by the FTC. One cannot assume that non response of the government is consent.

https://www.ftc.gov/policy/public-comments/2014/09/17/comment-00010

Although that being said neither the U.S. mint nor secret service or heck even government representatives for that matter, care about what he's doing. Don't believe me go ahead and contact them and you'll be run in an endless circle.

The mint will tell you the secret service deals with it and the secret service will send you back to the mint saying they deal with it as it's coinage. Even my local government reps offices who I contacted for potential help with clarification got the exact same run around. Frankly the government has dropped the ball and doesn't care about enforcing the matter. So unless someone can lobby for new laws being passed strictly prohibiting the action it will likely continue. Honestly I'm surprised at this point that others and the Chinese having got into doing it yet either.

 

Rusty, unfortunately, when this happens, he will be dead and gone and similar to the song, "he's got a ticket to ride and he don't care!"

Chris

 

It won't happen is the point of my above post. How can you guys not see that that argument is not based on logic

 

You want my honest, unadulterated opinion?

I think he's a counterfeiter. I think the things he makes are detestable abominations. I think he should be thrown in jail. I think the counterfeits he makes should be melted. I think people who buy them are idiots. I think the premiums are ridiculous. I think the TPGs that slab them are foolish. I have no idea why people like them, I have no idea why he is so popular, and I have no idea why he's been allowed to operate for as long as he has.

Carr has skill as an engraver, and his original pieces are quite interesting. However, any reputable work he has done has been irreparably marred by his illicit counterfeiting.

There, that's my opinion.

 

More often than not, when I have tried to use logic on these forums it has resulted in complete and utter failure. If copying coins is logical, then why doesn't Ford make Chevy's and vice versa?

Chris

 

You're missing my point chris. I was merely knocking out the argument of "people will find his coins in the future and be fooled into fake riches" argument. On to the next

And about your above post they are NOT counterfits... more like elaborately counterstamped coins.

 

I'm kind of neutral to Daniel Carr's overstrikes. They look really nice and it's a neat idea to make the fantasy pieces, but it's sad to see real coins killed to make them (the 1816 halves made me cry a little on the inside when I saw them on his website). If he put a noticeable mark on them that denoted them as fantasy pieces (perhaps on the edge), it would make it harder to mistake them as genuine pieces.

All seriousness aside, I'd like to say that...



...so do carry on ladies and gentlemen!

 

I've got your point, and if "educated collectors" continue to march backwards like they have been doing on FleaBay, there will be even more bidiots in the future who will be fooled by them.

You must have me confused with someone else. I didn't say anywhere in this thread that they were counterfeit. Junk, copies, crap.......take your pick!

Chris

 

Let's say your Mother wasnts to buy you something nice for whatever reason , lets say she knows nothing about coins . But some lowlife has a '64 Peace Carr dollar but tells your Mom it's a rare '64 dollar and sells it to her for say $5000 (Put your own # here ) Now she gives it to you for whatever the occasion may be . Or maybe she bought it for herself as an investment . It could be my Mom or anyone . Believe me sooner or later whether 50 years or 150 years it will happen .