Toning Ancient coins

Alright, I'm sure this is asked a lot regarding coin collecting in general but this is a question for ancients where there may be different crowd acceptances and norms in toning and condition compared to US coins.

How does the ancients community view purposely toned silver coins? Is there a level of detail that most would view as artificial toning?

Lets say I'm planning to tone some Roman denarii, do I just leave them out on a soft surface by the window sill in the humid NY summertime, would this speed up toning?
I've also heard of people wrapping silver coins in paper or in vintage (non-pvc) plastic holders but those were only mentioned in US coin or vintage world coin discussions not for ancients.

 

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To me, leaving a coin by a window, is natural toning. EDIT : No. It's artificial toning.
To me, leaving a coin in an acid free envelope, is natural toning.
To me, leaving a coin outdoors, is natural toning. EDIT : No. It's artificial toning.
To me, leaving a coin in a cabinet, is natural toning.
To me, using any chemicals, or something like rotten eggs, is artificial toning.
I would not want a coin, that is artificially toned.
Many ancient silver coins, have been cleaned blast white, for which the original toning has been eliminated. Then, later, they naturally toned, which is often called "cabinet toning", because many ancient coins are kept in cabinets.
Some ancient coins even have natural, rainbow cabinet toning.
Here's one of my ancient coins, which seems to have some natural, rainbow cabinet toning, in front of the nose, forehead, and hair. It also seems to have some original gray, brown, and black toning, in the protected parts of the coin.

EDIT : After thinking about it some more, I think that, even leaving a coin by a window, or leaving a coin outdoors, is artificial toning, if it is done, for the purpose, of hastening the toning a coin. It now seems to me, that anything that is done, for the purpose of hastening the toning of a coin, is artificial toning.


Alexander III The Great Posthumous Issue AR Tetradrachm. 280 BC to 200 BC. Odessos Mint. Price 1163. Diameter = 28 mm. Weight = 16.74 grams. Obverse Heracles In Lion Skin. Reverse Zeus On Throne.

 

P.S. : EDIT : It seems like, burying a coin in the ground, is artificial toning.

 

Thanks for your take on the subject.
I'm guessing the reason some reactions happen in cabinets are due to the hint amounts of sulfur in the materials used to store the coins.
My theory is that such small amounts of sulfur in combination with oxygen can change a small area of a silver coin into a variety of colors.

I've sort of done this with liver of sulfur and coin silver and even fine silver. If you use cold water mixed with liver of sulfur, the silver won't change color but as you slowly add boiling water to the mix you will see a much slower process of oxidation, you will see the silver turn different colors from a yellow/golden hue to a light/dark blue to a charcoal black.

It's hard to get that iridicent toning in short time but I think this is just a process of the coin getting exposed to teeny trace amounts of sulfur that you will start to see a rainbow hue in some areas of the coin.
It's like small amounts of sulfur is finely painting a rainbow on the surface of the coin.

 

P.P.S. : After thinking about it some more, it seems like, burying a coin in the ground, is artificial toning.

 

LOL that sounds about right.

But that kind of toning usually doesn't get that rainbow hue sadly.
I prefer a coin that has some type of cleaning done to it and then retoned "naturally".
I wish I was home so I could snap some photos of my coins that have iridescent toning.

 

...even if it was done 2000 years ago?

 

To me, using any chemicals, such as liver of sulfur, is artificial toning.

 

I have "over-cleaned" ancient coins, but after time, the toning will return.

 

That's an interesting point.
To me, if a coin was buried, for the purpose of toning the coin, then that is artificial toning.
On the other hand, to me, if a coin was buried for any other reason, then the toning is natural.

 

Yeah, I've only done it as an experiment on silver jewelry and cheap coin silver, I definitely would not butcher the look of my ancient coins that way though.

 

True silver toning comes from intact surfaces of the silver that melted when struck. Some ancients that were buried fairly quickly can retone, no doubt. However, most cannot since they might have circulated too long, needed to be cleaned more vigorously, that layer was corroded over time and removed, etc. If you learn about how coins tone, and the importance of surfaces, its pretty easy to spot if an ancient silver was toned naturally or artificially.

Now, toning to me in ancients that is exciting is toned copper. Hard green patina, or much rarer, a blue patina is simply gorgeous. That is a different chemical reaction than silver toning though.

 

Wow, I have yet to see blue patina on ancient copper coins, its amazing.

 

So, intent counts

 

To me, yes. In fact, after thinking about it some more, I think that, even leaving a coin by a window, or leaving a coin outdoors, is artificial toning, if it is done, for the purpose, of hastening the toning a coin. It now seems to me, that anything that is done, for the purpose of hastening the toning of a coin, is artificial toning.
After thinking about it some more, I would say, that the following definitions, are how I define toning (silver) and patina (bronze), for ancient coins.
Stripped coin : An ancient coin, for which all of the original toning or patina was removed, by cleaning.
Original toning or patina : The toning or patina, on an ancient coin, that existed before the coin was cleaned but not stripped. Most ancient coins have been cleaned, in the sense, that the dirt and some encrustations have been removed. But, it is possible, with care and expertise, to remove the dirt and encrustations, without removing the original toning or patina.
Cabinet toning or patina : The toning or patina, on an ancient coin, that happened naturally, after the coin was stripped of its original toning or patina by cleaning. Natural toning happens, if the coin is kept in a cabinet, or if the coin is kept in an envelope, or if the coin is kept anywhere, as long as the intent, is not to hasten the toning of the coin.
Artificial toning or patina : The toning or patina, on an ancient coin, that happened artificially, after the coin was stripped of its original toning or patina by cleaning. Artificial toning, is toning that involves chemicals, or eggs, or anything that is done, for the purpose of hastening the toning of a coin. For example, keeping a coin outdoors, or keeping a coin by a window, are examples of artificial toning, if it is done, for the purpose of hastening the toning of a coin.

 

I’ve toned silver by mashing a hard boiled egg and putting the coin in a closable plastic container for 30 minutes. Results are a little questionable, but it certainly does the trick.

 

Around 50 years ago, one of my best friends decided to tone some of his Roman bronzes by burying them in his back yard. He left them for a few years, but when he decided sufficient time had passed and attempted to dig them up, he forgot where he had buried them. It took him around 10 years to find them! Whenever I think of this with a smile, it reminds me of Samuel Pepys burying his gold in his vegetable garden in Oct. 1667 against a possible Dutch invasion. Once the danger had passed, he went to dig it up, but also had trouble in finding the spot.

 

I have trouble remembering why I went into the kitchen. Perhaps I buried some coins and I don't remember.

 

Here are some of my naturally toned coins with that iridescent hue,

(sorry, I'm horrible at photographing coins)



L. Censorinus 82 BC
AR Denarius
Obv: Head of Apollo
Rev: Marsyas standing left, raising hand and holding wineskin over shoulder; to right, column surmounted by statue of Minerva(?) standing right.
(multiple colors)


(Hard to see but has a yellowish golden luster around the coin)
Antoninus Pius
Rev: Concordia



(multiple colors)
Achaean League
Obv: Head of Zeus

 

I remember a dealer used to tone coins by putting them in his shoe (or inside sock, I can’t remember). I’ve also had decent results placing an ancient in my wallet raw so it touches the bills and overtime it tones a more pleasing brown than before