To receipt or not to receipt?

That is to say, except for online sales, do you get a receipt when you buy a coin? When I buy at a coin show, I typically don't get one. At auctions it's iffy. Some do, some don't. Those that do give a little ticket that tells what you bought and the price. When I go to my LCS, the dealer gives one, but no description, basically just the price.

So what has been your experience?

 

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Usually no receipt is given or offered. I attribute this in part that I typically only buy low-value items but that dealers often offer the "price you see is the price you pay" price when you pay cash instead of card and they don't mess about charging tax and want to keep the paperwork to a minimum as a result.

 

I always receive a receipt for anything of any significant value (say over $50) and/or for anything I might have to to return or may require proof of the purchase price (tax, insurance, etc.).

If anyone won't give me a proper receipt when I politely request it, then the sale is canceled then and there. What do I mean by "proper receipt"? At least the following information:

- date of sale
- item description
- price of item
- dealer/business name
- dealer phone number and/or email address

Information I sometimes require on the receipt in addition to the above:

- place of business or business address
- website address

Frankly, I view anyone who won't supply this information to their paying customer as having either something unseemly to hide or too lazy/uncaring to run a proper business enterprise. In both cases, not somebody I care to do business with.

Now, at coins shows and for small purchases, I have been known to take the dealer's business card and myself transcribe the pertinent information onto it myself. I have also handed dealers with no receipt pad and no business card a blank piece of paper and insisted they write it down and sign it. Some don't like it but too bad.

Like previously stated, I don't do this for low value purchases and I am very polite and not confrontational about it but when I require it, I am insistent.

 

That is because too much of the nuismatic market is dealing with under the table money and is full of stolen coins as a result. People rebel when they hear that, but it is true. Reciepts prove pedigree and if you purchases anything substantial, I suggest you get it and hold onto it.

 

My last purchase was at a coin shop that I've gone to many times. I trust the dealer, but when I bought four coins for $40, I expected something on the receipt he gave me. Instead he wrote something that looks like Lot 20, and the price I paid. It just never bothered me before, but I wanted to know what the practice was. The dealer is a lifetime ANA member, so I consider him to be serious about the business.

But I don't buy coins that I call expensive, so at a show I'm not worried if I don't get one. Should I be?

 

Almost all of my purchases have been cash, and at the shows I've had dealers knock off a few dollars for me.

 

Yea I’ll almost always get a receipt unless it’s a bunch of low value stuff like was searching the world coin bin or something. Anything of value or slabbed always a receipt though especially if paying with cash. If you use a credit card that kinda acts like a receipt but cash always get one

 

Same here, so I write in what I bought so I don't forget. It's easy to forget for sure, been there plenty!

 

Only in the last few years have I requested a receipt when purchasing a large ticket item (over $200). Anything less I just write it in my paper notebook. This is mostly to help the family know what the coins are worth after I'm gone.

 

Me too, I keep paper records where I write down what was purchased, description, date and price. Only one of my kids seems to have any interest anyway, but they should know which ones are special / more expensive. I should move it all to my computer (I work for a software company, lol, at present anyway), but I haven't gotten around to it. Besides, I kind of like paper. I think I'll just take pictures of my paper records (and my collection) to cover my bases. Has anyone done that or have any other ideas?

 

Actually, why do you care about getting one? If you want to document what you paid for a coin you can simply write it in your notebook or coin inventory database. It's not like you're going to use it to ask for a refund later, right?

 

I keep all (well most) of my coin purchases in an Excel Spreadsheet. Information logged is Description, Quantity, Price, Date, Business/Merchant. Haven't yet scanned all the physical receipts, but hopefully someday.

 

Okay, I understand there might be tax consequences, but what about those inheritance? My son inherited his coins from his grandfather, who never bought a coin in his life. He just picked them up while in the service during WWII, and from the rural area he grew up in. So there's no receipt or even a cost basis for the majority of coins he has.

I still don't understand why the government has to tax inheritances.

 

I always ask for a receipt. My wife is a bigger problem than the IRS. "You spent how much."

 

Always get a receipt. It proves what you paid. If you don’t have evidence, the IRS will make it up for you if they don’t like your numbers.

 

But what if you have coins you didn't pay for? And I'm not talking about stolen coins, just inherited ones that also were not bought or stolen.

 

Let me preface these comments by saying that I am an engineer by profession, not a tax advisor, financial advisor, CPA or any other of the recognized experts on tax and estate planning. But you can't get through life without learning some things. My advice is always to consult the experts for such complicated matters while retaining your own ability to judge that advice.

For collectors that are selling their own collection during their lifetime, the IRS treats the sale of your collectibles (art, cars, coins, bullion) as a short-term capital gain. That is a typical rate of 28% (it can vary) on the difference between what you paid for it (called the "basis") and the sale price. If the gain is positive, that is a capital gain. If negative, that's a loss which can be used to offset some other income on a very limited basis. If you don't have receipts and records, then you have no way to credibly establish the basis value. That puts you in a very untenable position with the IRS and you are unlikely to be fond of their interpretation since they generally are not inclined to "take your word for it".

For legitimate dealers, the issues are different since the coins are not collectables but rather business inventory and we won't get into that here.

For inheritances, the original purchase price doesn't matter much except to inform the heirs as to the potential value of the items and how seriously to deal with the disposal. If you inherit a collection that has some non-trivial value, a new "basis" value is established during the time that the estate is being probated. At this time, the collection should be appraised by a qualified expert and a written appraisal produced for your use in the probate records. You should pay for the appraisal since that helps establish the bona fides and independence of the appraiser for both the probate court and the IRS. Once the new basis value is established, then any sale of the coins either during probate or after probate clearance is compared against the new basis value for the purpose of computing capital gains/losses.

Now, here's the tricky part. If you inherited a coin collection but did not put the collection into probate with a new appraisal to establish that new basis value, then at some later date when you want to sell those coins, your capital gain must then be measured against what your forebear bought them for. If your forebear did not keep records or you threw them out, then you are in a fix. (Note: I do not know if you must probate the collection in order to establish a new basis value or if a valid and credible appraisal by itself alone is adequate. That is a question for the experts.)

Of course, if someone intends to operate in the underground economy, not pay their legally-owed taxes, and commit civil and criminal infractions then none of the above will make any difference. But I don't recommend it by any means.

BTW, the new administration and Congress are debating increasing the top capital gains tax to 38% or more. Who knows if they would make it retroactive to the beginning of 2021 but they've done that before. So, if you are thinking about selling a collection this year, you might want to keep track of this issue and plan accordingly.

 

See my previous post.

 

The federal government does not tax all inheritances. Federal Estate Tax is only due on estates valued above a certain amount - I think it is currently $10M?

But your question is why tax any estate? Because the government is greedy; views the value as theirs only being temporarily allowed to be held by you; a certain amount of envy among policy-makers; and a view among policy-makers that the estate is un-earned by the inheritors and thus morally suspect, you having it is not as valuable societally as the government having it.