I like seeking out overlooked variants. My latest purchase seems to fall into that category. Titus Caesar AR Denarius, 3.45g Rome Mint, 76 AD RIC V873 (R2), BMC p. 36 note, RSC 60 Obv: T CAESAR IMP VESPASIANVS; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, l. Rev: COS V across field; Eagle, stg. front on garlanded altar, wings open, head l. The common eagle and altar type was struck for both Vespasian and Titus Caesar. Here is a very scarce left facing portrait example of the type. However, what interested me about this coin was the reverse, not just the rare obverse. What isn't noted in the references and catalogues is the fact this type comes in two variants - one with eagle clutching a thunderbolt in its talons and another lacking a thunderbolt. RIC generically describes the reverse as eagle with 'thunderbolt in claws', so this coin without thunderbolt should be regarded as a variant. I have another example of this type clearly showing the eagle clutching a thunderbolt. Those coins missing a thunderbolt actually seem to be a bit more common. Here is my other example with eagle clutching thunderbolt for comparison. I'm at a loss to explain the reason for the difference. Perhaps the two variations are the result of nothing more than an engraver's whim? Or are we looking at different workshops operating within the mint? IMHO, the difference is substantial enough to be noted. After all, lesser variations of other types have been assigned their own catalogue numbers! I purchased the coin in the belief the distinction is indeed important. Feel free to post your eagles, with or without thunderbolts.
Your question is way over my head. In your last coin, I do not see a thunderbolt but two branches crossed over the altar with the lower parts hanging down on the opposite site. Do you have images of less worn examples? All I have is a Vespasian with a plain altar. Was it decorated before it wore flat? I see interest in the following: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=305900 https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=106381 https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=75066 The above show branches; the one below has a thunderbolt. https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=282556 'Why' is rarely an easy question.
I have a couple of Vespasian examples of the type, the first perhaps shows the thunderbolt more clearly. Vespasian RIC 847 Vespasian RIC 848 The decoration on the altars varies wildly depending on the engraver. Some were decorated very elaborately, while others have a very frugal look about them. FWIW, those with thunderbolts and branches tend to have the more embellished altars.
Doug, I think you're correct about the branches. So, perhaps we have three variants of the type: one with eagle clutching thunderbolt, another with eagle clutching two laurel (?) branches, and a third with a plain altar. My first Vespasian looks like the only true thunderbolt variant out of the ones I've posted. The second Titus and second Vespasian I've posted being the 'two laurel branch' variant. Your Vespasian and my OP Titus the 'plain' altar.
Wonderful variants!! It's so cool to find coins with different variations.... I try not to get too interested in this aspect of collecting since I can barely keep up with everything else that catches my eye LOL
Being a specialist, I have no choice. lol To some folks minute variations is boring stuff indeed, but to me it's very exciting!
Awesome find as always David. I never find your discoveries boring at all! It is a good reminder to never to assume anything when attributing a coin.
RIC assigns separate catalogue numbers to types with less substantial variations, so it's quite puzzling to me why the above differences were not at least noted. Some of the plate coins for this type are of the 'plain' altar variety, but not described as such in the text.
Great coin David. I find this a fascinating area of the hobby and an opportunity for some new scholarship as regards your coin.
As Doug said, answering the 'why?' is going to be tough, if not impossible. My hunch is what we are seeing is different workshops producing the different variants, proving it through die links would be difficult since this is a very large issue!
Yea, it's fairly well executed. I like how part of the beard can still be seen. Many people don't realise that Titus and Domitian are normally 'bearded'.
Yes, on some of them you can clearly make out a thunderbolt, on others I'm not quite so sure what is represented. Poorly rendered thunderbolts, branches, or something else? I don't know. Until the matter is decided, I'll just describe the type as either with thunderbolt or without.
That's a great OP-addition, David (congrats) Vespasian, AR Denarius (69-79 AD) - Rome 76 AD Weight: 3.4 grams Obverse: Laureate head right, IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG Reverse: Eagle standing facing on garlanded base, wearing Converse All-Stars Reference: S-2287 ... I have a cool example (I'm not 100% confident in the coin-attribution?)
Love the coin Steve. Although, I can't make out whether your eagle is wearing Converse high or low tops.
Nice coins everyone. Cool collecting focus @David Atherton ... I really enjoy Vespasian. I have one of his Quinarius: (rotten photo, will reshoot later when I am completely "moved-in") RI Vespasian 69-79 CE AR Quinarius Victory seated wreath palm RIC 802 Rare (This is Frank Robinson's shot for much better clarity than mine...)
