Hello everybody, I am pretty much new to collecting coins. Actually, I have many coins that I have pulled out of circulation, its just that recently I have acquired a taste in Morgan Dollars. The difference between before and now is that I am now paying for coins. I have been to a local dealer looking at specific coins, but just didnt really see what I wanted. I plan to go to more shops in my area. But in the meantime, I have been browsing ebay.....mostly taking stabs at high mintage, questionable, but more importantly CHEAP Morgan Dollars. I dont mind paying a little over spot for now, but as the prices go up, I want to be sure I'm not wasting my money. I have purchased the Red Book, Photograde, and The Red Book Guide to Morgans. My trouble is with crappy pictures, and the possibility of buying artifically toned or cleaned coins.....I just havent handled enough to have the experience to tell. I have found a Morgan I would like to buy on Ebay. It is relatively cheap....and not too uncommon, but it has caught my eye. The coloring is distinct, and it doesnt seem too beat up.....and the return policy seems legit. The question now is.....Is it worth it?? Or better yet....Am I on the right track? Or should I stick with certified coins.....to rule out the fakes?? Or is the blue just the effect of being cleaned?? Would $30-$45 be too much?? Thanks, Pete
I don't think it's artificially toned. That light toning around the rim is typical. There are hundreds of thousands of white Morgans which have been lightly dipped - they're everywhere. I wouldn't worry too much about that. This one was likely dipped, but would probably pass at a top TPG. $45 is Mint State money for this date. It should be MS63 or better. No need to stick with certified on low $ Morgans. There's not money to be made in counterfeit low MS commoners, so we don't see too many. But always look carefully, of course... this one seems legit. The big issues are all the standard e-bay issues... 100% feedback, 100% satisfaction guaranteed, backed up by a no questions asked return policy (7 days or better). Also, might want to ask the seller a question and see what kind of response you get. A good seller will be prompt, courteous, honest, and be GLAD to hear from you. There's a lot of good people in the biz, but some hosers too. If they treat with respect, well... you know what you like ! Good luck, bro !
Collecting coins should be fun and entertaining. If you are worrying about paying too much and not getting what you thought you were getting, I would buy PCGS graded Morgan dollars. My reasoning: (1) Like or not PCGS is considered one of the top two third party grading services. NGC is the other. However, PCGS graded coins tend to command higher premiums for the same coin over NGC. (2) Guaranteed authenticity. Morgans tend to be graded fairly, although I would strongly suggest learning to grade Morgan dollars yourself, especially to coins that have been 'whizzed', cleaned or artificially toned. (3) As for grade, It depends on what your budget allows and how well the coin pleases you. After all, you are the final arbiter of what you like or do not like. (4) Morgan dollars provide a wide range of diversity, with many varities that offer a collector an opportunity to sometimes cherry pick a coin worth more than most dealers realize. Knowledge of the coins themselves is paramount. (5) If you don't have a red book, purchase one. (6) Purchase reference materials that pertain to your collecting habit. In Your case, Leroy Van Allen's excellent book, Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace dollars would be useful. Another is a book by Michael S. Fey and Jeff Oxman, The top 100 Morgan dollar varieties: The Vam keys.
Yep. Learning to grade is mandatory... and what better place to learn than Morgans ? Personally, I like Jim Halperin's book "How to Grade US Coins". His idea is "first, learn to grade Morgans, and extend that method to any other series". Works for me.
1. I am aware of this. My plan for now has been to purchase more coin on the cheap. I was trying to get my hands on some examples so I could see the differences......or to try and see the differences. I have the Red book, and figure that if I can get a few Morgans off of ebay cheaper than what they list for in the book....then I am not really throwing my money away. I am not purchasing lower end coins for monetary reasons.....I was trying to learn while getting my hands on "something". 2. The learning to grade the whizzed cleaned and artifically toned coins.....this is the problem. I have not seen enough examples. Which brings me back to buying cheap off of ebay. 3. Budget/desire.....I mentioned going to a coin store....this is what happened. Really I want a 1878 8tf in ms64 or higher. I figured at or around $400 for a 64 would be a good starting point. I go to the local shop, (have been there before...I have a hoard of silver coin) and peek around...trying to see if there is a 8tf ms64 on display. Lo and behold, I find one. I ask to see it. "Ohhh, that is a really rare coin.....especially a 64". I say "nice...can I see it". It was in an ngc slab...(red book says 400). The coin was free of nicks and dents....but overall looked "scratched...or rubbed". It wasnt as nice as I had expected it to be from what I have seen in the books. How much? The guy wanted $350. I walked out. I figured that I could get something better, and if it was so special....why would it still be there...and why for $50 less than list? I dont mind paying. I just want to pay for something I like. On ebay, I grade conservatively, and then put a low bid in. If I win, Sweet!! If not, I nkow there will be another in a few minutes. There is no mad rush to win a bidding war. 4. Cherrypicking....must do more research. That is why I am here typing. 5. Red Book...Check 6. Leroy Van Allens Book....is this the one that mentions the "VAM's"? Or just a more in depth version of my Red Book Guidebook of Morgan Silver Dollars? Either way, I will get it. Back to the beginning though?? I figured that the coin I posted fell between au55+ / ms62....it is a large gap but am I close?? Thanks everyone. I'll type less next time.
Hi again...One of the problems with buying coins 'raw' (non slabbed coins from a top tier third party grader) on e-bay is a high probability these will be problem coins, ie, whizzed, altered surfaces, artifiically toned, or cleaned. You will pay more for the coin than what is actually worth. my advise, if you buying coins that are raw, you must learn to grade coins accurately and be able to discern coins that are whizzed, cleaned, and artificially toned otherwise you will be purchasing less than what you thought. Buying cheap raw coins from e-bay is going to be costly as you will learning these issues the hard and expensive way. Unfortunately, there are too many problem coins out there. Interestingly, the year 1878 especially philadelphia minted ( coins with no mint mark) coins are the most studied of the the Morgan dollars and they have many hard to find varieties. Then there are the sixteen varieties of the seven over eight tailfeathers and there are the seven tail feather varieties. Some collectors just collect this facinating year. The book by Leroy Van allen, encylopedia of Morgan and peace dollars is actually co-authored by A. George Mallis. Their collaborative work is the foundation for Vam collecting. (Van Allen and Mallis....VAM) My guess on the grade of the coin you are looking at would be termed a "slider". By that AU 58 or low end MS61 assuming there are no other problems. I really like to look at raw coins in hand. I look at the luster, focal areas aound the face, and wear on the eagles breast. The PCGS price guide for a PCGS graded 1884-P in AU58 condition is twenty-six dollars. MS 62 is Thirty-seven dollars. At the very least, a PCGS graded coin will be genuine, should not be whizzed, artificially toned (but that is a whole other discussion) or cleaned. These are issues that I would reccomend you look at little more closely at. Oh...Welcome to this forum. Oz
Wayne Miller's book is out of print and tough to locate at times, but I highly recommend it to every serious Morgan collector.....I forget the title, but mine is about 25 years old??
1. If you want examples I would personally buy graded coins to look at. And yes I like PCGS and NGC best for grading, then ANACs and ICG. And yes I did this also after I thought I knew how to grade - I bought raw coins that I liked. I still ended up with some cleaned coins and sometimes pictures on ebay are deceiving, especially when the cleaning is slight. Even then I used my local dealer to help me learn with these coins. Even then I revisited the raw coins often and might change my grade as I went along. So to me buying graded coins will help you keep from making mistakes, without knowing buying raw coins could hurt more. 2. I would not buy these coins and using ebay you will probably get some. In some cases it is easy to line up graded morgans and place a raw coin between them and tell the raw coin has been cleaned. And yes my father has a couple of cleaned morgans that I really like anyway. My local dealer helped us with by lining up coins and pointing things out to us. It was a learning experience. 3. Without seeing the coin I can't make comments. I do know this if my local dealer buys a coin, he will place a price on it. That price will stay there for months even if the coin does not move. Plus maybe your dealer knew it was not choice for the grade and thus discounted. Did you ask him why it was only 350 versus the current market? I asked on several coins at my local dealer - he told me they were not excellent examples of the grade so priced them accordingly. I snatched a 1798 large cent for 30 bucks one day - problem free, just weak date and real worn on the reverse - I have watched worse coins go for double or triple that on ebay. 4,5,6 Good answers. If you can't tell I think I have a pretty good relationship with the local dealer here and they are always willing to help me learn. From what I could tell on the picture I thought AU55 to MS63. And one other thing I do on ebay - even for slabbed coins - if I can not grade the coin from the pictures, or the pictures look off, I skip the auction. I know I probably miss some nice coins, but like you said another will be along. OOPs - I almost forgot, I also check some dealers I like - if I could get a graded coin for 60 including shipping from one of the dealers, I always keep my bids under that. Just my opinions.
