Thoughts on this 1757 Great Britain Peace Medal?

Hello everyone!

Just got this interesting piece in as a consignment. As I'm prepping it for listing...I'd like to just learn a little bit more about it. I'd like to know if it's a counterfeit or restrike, and if possible, an approximate value.

The item weighs 36.4 grams and is 42.5mm in diameter and 3mm in thickness.

Here's the item:

 

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Can you show a photo of the edge? I think the originals were struck on Spanish 8 Reales and the edge should be ornamental.

 

Is it made of silvered lead? It looks to be a copy of an Indian Peace medal. But the dimensions and weight suggest it would have to be made of lead. Originals in this condition would go for tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Here is a website that might help:
www.historicalartmedals.com

There's about 40 categories, try "England - 17th to 19th Centuries." The guy who started the website "might" be a client.

 

Edge is flat...definitely not the 8 reales edge. If I had to guess, it looks like some kind of silver colored metal with a brown layer on the edge...like it was painted or colored with something brown.

 

Don't the design elements look a bit crude to anyone?

I suppose it just doesn't pass my eye test (why I'm holding it off eBay until we figure out what it is, exactly)...so I'm asking for help. Keep it coming!

 

I think that small die crack on the second I in Georgivs II is indicative that it is struck from the original dies. This would make it an early restrike and a higher value piece.

You may want to send the images to Stacks - they have some expertise on these.

 

Interesting piece!

 

What's going on with the reverse? Are they... roasting marshmallows???

 

I don't know. The edge makes me think it is a cast copy, and I've never seen the numeral "1" shaped like a "J".

Chris

 

That is a peace pipe the European is holding over the fire opposite the Native American. In 1757 the French and Indian war had commenced and was not going well at all (Braddock's defeat, loss of Fort William Henry). The British sent emissaries into the frontier like William Johnston to detach the Indians from their alliance with the French and these medals were part of the attempt. If genuine it as a valuable peace but I must tell you that such medals are fair game for reproductions much bought by reenactors for their kit.

 

@kevin McGonigal good answer; thanks.

(Although I must admit, I was hoping that my answer was correct. ;-)

 

I noticed that crack too, but the crudeness of the letters and overall detail makes me think it is a transfer mold replica. It's way too mushy to be struck from original dies. It's not new though, I'm thinking 19th century.

 

Just spoke with an expert in this type of material (thanks to @Numismat for the contact info) and it is a modern copy (1960's-70's.)

 

Oh well... though at least you know.

I thought it looked a lot older than that. These sure can be tricky!

 

Wow, knew it was a copy, but thought it was much older. Tricky indeed!

 

Passing a pipe of some sort....

 

One of the things to look for on these Indian peace medals is the metal itself. The originals for powerful chiefs were of good coin silver, those for lesser notables were of solid brass. Pot metal, lead, junk indeterminate alloy were not used for these medals back then. (Native Americans were no fools. They knew good metal when they handled it).I have been a reenactor since the early 1970's. I have seen any number of replica coins from that Bicentennial period (1976) and it is the metal that is the dead give away. There was no attempt to deceive serious collectors, just the desire to give the reenactors the kind of material that soldiers of that period would have been carrying around in their haversacks and purses.

 

I wouldn't write this one off yet. Did your expert provide any reasoning as to why it is a 1960 replica vs an 1800's restrike? There is much debate over all these 1757 medals, I'm not even sure Stacks is 100% that they have it right. I am not an expert but have 2 of these 1 in pewter and 1 in silver and both very different. I'd like to see the facts that support his theory. Hard to find 2 experts with the same opinion on this coin...original or restrike!!!

 

edited - forum rules