This one didn't hold its value

Gaius Egnatuleius, c.f. 97 BC.
Roman Republican AR quinarius, 1.68 g, 14.6 mm, 11 h.
Rome, 97 BC.
Obv: C·EGNATVLEI·C·F·Q, Laureate head of Apollo, right.
Rev: Victory left, inscribing shield attached to trophy; beside trophy, carnyx; Q in center field; ROMA in exergue.
Refs: Crawford RRC 333/1; Sydenham CRR 588; BMCRR1 1076-77; Sear RCV 213.

This one came with an old auction envelope dated April 17, 1975.



Philadelphia Freedom was #1 on the charts:



The average new car cost $4250, the Dow Jones was 825, and this coin sold for $33.00 with 0.50 postage.

Adjusted for inflation, $33 is the equivalent of $158.32.



I think it would be lucky to bring half that at auction today. It didn't hold its value.

 

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1970s - early 1980s were a huge bubble in the ancient coin market. I started collecting Roman Imperial coins at this time. The bubble burst in the early 1980s and prices were slow to recover. When I resumed collecting in the mid 1990s, after a hiatus, I was surprised that I could still buy good quality Roman Republican coins for not much more than they cost 15 years earlier.

 

Your post inspired me to look a little more into the history of Stack's Coin Galleries from the time and I came across this fascinating history.

 

..well..i reckon some don't and some get higher...kool album RC..i still listen to it......in fact.... 'i used to be a rolling stone you know.....

 

I once bought quite a few coins from Coin Galleries (the ancient division of Stacks). When I retired to fixed income in 2003, they were the last house to cut me from their list and stop sending catalogs. Most coins I got from them were decent and common rather than rarities.

If you got nothing out of owning a coin in all that time other than a small advance on the $33 you made a mistake. Instead, you should have bought one share of some stock, lets say Apple, which split to become 56 shares each selling for 10x the issue price. Coins are not a good investment unless you like coins. I like coins.

 

I have this constant «bubble» feeling with coins and numismatic value.
It’s probably because the coins are not good for anything, except to love them and learn from them.
Maybe that’s value after all.

I’m sure the increased availibility of metal detectors has influenced the coin market, and also the fall of the iron carpet.
I think cheap coins are great. Even though I sell some coins from time to time, I’m most definitely a net buyer.

 

I think new hoards etc. have been factors but perhaps the biggest contributor has been the use of the internet and online auctions. In the 60's and 70's you had to actively search for coins at flea markets, coin fairs or reputable auction houses, depending on ones budget. The effort in finding that special coin made it not only more exciting but also added a certain value for exclusivity.

Nowadays most of us can buy the coin we want by a mere click of a button sitting in our armchairs at home. But maybe 2020 will mark a turning point as collectibles become a way of protecting ones wealth??!! Or maybe not

 

I have often wondered if having a bunch of denarii can ble considered wealth protection.
I hope it is, at least to an extent. I guess it’s a question of scenario too. If we get high inflation, I assume hard assets are good to have. In a really ugly scenario, my money is on canned food, gold and ammunition, however...
In a normal economy, stocks are probably a far better investment of money, but a poorer investment in time and mental energy (in my humble opinion). It’s just that things don’t look so normal these days.

 

Looks like you’re preparing to hunker down in your bunker ready to fight your way out

Let’s hope it won’t come to that. Prior to this pandemic the basic principles were quite sound so hopefully the world will survive for the next couple of years. It is expected to be substantially weakened and we will have to do without many things we took for granted but, being alive, if poorer, beats the alternative any day.

PS. Obviously I wasn’t talking about just dinarii but also modern gold issues which have strengthened above the normal metal value

 

Love that song!

I have two coins which reportedly were acquired by the previous owners from Coin Galleries in the '60s, but unfortunately, they didn't come with the original tickets or envelopes, so I don't know how much they paid for them.


TRAJAN DECIUS
AE Sestertius. 28.32g, 32.7mm. Rome mint, AD 249-250. RIC 112a (scarce); Cohen 18. O: IMP C M Q TRAIANVS DECIVS AVG, laureate, cuirassed bust right. R: DACIA, Dacia standing left holding staff surmounted by a wolf-like head (draco); S-C in field.
Ex Behnen Collection (acquired from Coin Galleries, 24 June 1966)


THESSALY, Larissa
AR Drachm. 5.69g, 18.1mm. THESSALY, Larissa, circa 356-342 BC. Lorber, Hoard, L-III, 61-3; BCD Thessaly II 320; HGC 4, 454. O: Head of the nymph Larissa facing slightly left, wearing ampyx. R: ΛAPIΣ/AIΩN, horse standing right, preparing to lie down; plant below.
Ex Baldwin Maull Collection (acquired from Coin Galleries, 1960)

The one below did come with its old Coin Galleries tag, but from a 1993 sale, not nearly as old as yours. In that sale, it hammered for $425. I acquired it in 2015 for $450 (before fees). I haven't the foggiest idea how much it'll fetch when it next goes on sale - I'll likely be too old or dead to care.


SIKYONIA, Sikyon
AR Stater. 11.98g, 24.2mm. SIKYONIA, Sikyon, circa 431-400. BCD Peloponnesos 186; HGC 5, 181. O: Chimaera standing left; ΣE below. R: Dove flying left within wreath.
Ex BCD Collection; ex Coin Galleries Mail Bid Sale, 10 February 1993, lot 80



And the #1 song on the Billboard Hot 100 charts the week of that sale was...

 

R.C., That is interesting analysis . I think if most of us applied the same formula to coins we purchased 30 to 40 years ago we would be less than happy . I can remember buying quinarii of that quality in the 1970s for $10 or less. It is one level above "junk box" material. Many of the U.S. coins I was putting hard earned money into during the 1970s & 80s had investment returns far worse than that quinarius ! That is one reason I switched from buying modern coins to ancient coins. As Doug Smith pointed out, ancient coins offer much more than a measurable investment return that modern coins don't have. Aside from being rarer than modern coins, ancient coins have an alluring mystique that modern coins don't have. They have artistry & aesthetic qualities that only hand-craftsmanship can offer. I'm sure when the next coming recession knocks on our door we'll see falling prices in the ancient coin market, but that drop in value will be temporary & not as severe as U.S. & other modern coins .

 

I am stuck on this album you unleashed. Loved it, played it all the time.

Underrated song:




and, of course, Awesomeness:




Random coin (sorry, @Roman Collector )
Reminds me of Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy song...


Carthage 216-215 BCE Sardinia mint AE 3.3g Tanit L - BULL stndg R CNP 377a

 

I agree with you, and it’s good to read that optimism.

Actually, I don’t worry about us being poorer for a while. I even believe many of us will benefit from it. I sure could use a higher degree of economic sense, and it wouldn’t hurt to eat a little less either.

The main sources of joy in my life are:
1. My daughter
2. Nature
3. Friends
4. Music
5. Knowledge

All of them are pretty affordable. If I never could afford another coin again, I would still be able to live a happy life.

 

svessien, It looks like you've got your priorities in the right order ! However I don't know about eating less . Since the pandemic hit us I've been cooking more often & eating better than before . I live in a rural area & have no problem getting quality produce & excellent whole grain organic bread . Being close to the Canadian border, we also get excellent organic produce from Canada that is usually more reasonable in price than the local produce .

 

One of my hobbies is rock climbing, Al!

I recently went out climbing, and realized it had become severely more difficult to drag my quarantine fat @ss up that mountain!

 

Interesting thread. I've been collecting ancients from 1987-c. 1995, 2013+. Throughout that time I've also been collecting (more like accumulating) junky silver world crowns. Junky world crowns have held their value for one reason, mostly:

Silver Historical Performance
Period Change ($) Change (%)
30 Days 0.57 3.82%
6 Months -1.29 -7.72%
1 Year 0.68 4.60%
5 Years -0.92 -5.61%
Since 2000 10.07 186.04%

https://www.kitco.com/silver-price-today-usa/

That's Kitco's silver price index. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, you could buy a 25 gram 90% silver 19th century French or Belgian 5 francs, Spanish 5 pesetas, etc. for $6 or so. Thanks to the rise in silver price, those days are done.

A few junkers off my desk:


I bought 'em because I thought they were pretty & old, not as an investment, although it did cross my mind that $7 or $10 spent on a heavy silver coin would hold value, compared to, say, my other big expenditure at the time, beer. A silver coin I bought in 1991 has held its value much better than all that beer I guzzled from that era. And so I justify my expenditures...

As for ancients, the prices were high for me back in the 1980s-1990s because of the limited venues to purchase them - catalogues, shows, local dealers - I paid much higher prices for ancients than I do now. Mostly these have not held their value, or have appreciated very little.

But eBay changed things for me - I can now indulge in my preference for cheap junky stuff with ancients. Here's my version of the OP from an eBay lot - rough, but a bit over $2 - in 2017. I'm thinking I could triple my money selling it separately!



Roman Rep. Quinarius
C. Egnatuleius C.f.
(97 B.C.)
Rome mint
C·EGNATVLEI·C·F·Q, laureate head of Apollo right / Victory standing left inscribing shield set on trophy, in left field, carnyx, Q, ROMV in exergue,
Egnatuleia 1; Crawford 333/1.
(1.59 grams / 17 X 15 mm)
eBay Dec. 2017 Lot @ $2.13

On the other hand, here is the nicest quinarius in my collection. I bought this from my local dealer in 1989 for $85.00 (which was a "preferred" customer discount price). This was comparable to what I was seeing in the paper catalogues I was getting back then.

What does that work out to in 2020 dollars? What would you pay for it? My hunch is I'd lose money on it if I tried to sell it now, especially if adjusted for inflation.



Roman Republic Quinarius
Publius Vettius Sabinus
(99 B.C.)
Laureate head of Jupiter right control letter left (X) / Victory r. crowning trophy P•SABIN between, control letter (X?) right, Q in exergue
Crawford 331/1; Vettia 1; Sydenham 587
(1.77 grams / 15 mm)

 

I started out buying coins at age 11 in the 1980's. My first coin was a Gordian III MARTEM PROPVGNATOREM type that I bought from a coin store that had an ancient tray for $30. That same would probably be $50 or $60 today, so not really in pace with inflation. Hence, I consider coins a "hobby" and less of an alternative asset investment.

 

Probably not germane to this thread but perhaps of interest.
When I was a teen I'd walk down Main St. Houston to my stamp dealer (Mitula Stamps & Coins) w/ $5 dollars in my pocket. On my way each Sat. I'd walk past John's Cards Cameras & Coin shop. One day in 1962 his window display caught my eye. It was a fanned roll of shiny uncirculated 1887 seated liberty dimes advertised, 'Your Pick $3.00 each'..Not being a coin collector at the time, I couldn't resist spending the majority of my 'stamp' money for an excellent example of this sweet little disme.
The Coin collecting bug HAD BIT!
Wish I still had that coin!
J.T.

 

I was a kid during the Bicentennial, and recall being pretty disappointed by the whole thing - all the schlocky souvenirs and general incoherence. I stood in line for hours to go through the Freedom Train (remember that?). A conveyer belt history experience - the only thing I recall was an enormous pair of sneakers worn by an NBA star (Wilt Chamberlain? I don't recall). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Train

Those "Bicentennial Minutes" that were on TV were about my favorite thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicentennial_Minutes

But Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom" - I remember that was on the radio a lot, and nowadays, I feel that is about the best, most enduring thing to come out of the Bicentennial. I didn't really understand it lyrically, but it made me feel patriotic in a way the more "official" efforts did not. And it was written for Billie Jean King's tennis team!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Freedom_(song)

Sorry for the non-coin musings. So let me try to redeem myself - the Bicentennial coinage issued at that time was pretty lousy too - it was the beginning of the end for American coin design - when these things started looking more like tokens than coins. The dollar's okay - at least the rather botched-perspective moon-eagle has been replaced. But the quarter in particular is pretty bad. In my opinion, of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bicentennial_coinage

 

The bubble in those years was real. A dealer from Italy bought this Larissa stater in a Swiss auction in 1972 for 8000 Swiss francs. I bought it in 2018 for 2000 Eur plus fees. Someone must have taken quite a hit along the way. The truth also is the issue was not that plentiful then.