@justafarmer posted on this subject in this forum. I expanded on it in my June 29th Numismatic News column. Will some of you computer savvy members please post some links?
YES & THANKS!!! justafarmer, posted: "Counterfeit detection for a coin struck from a pair of dies made from an authentic source coin has 3 levels of die markers subject to authentication. Level 1 are the die markers of the authentic die pair used for striking real coins. A real coin should possess all the of these die markers. A coin that does not exhibit all the die markers of an authentic coin would be a suspect counterfeit. As these would be die markers present on the source coin that were not transferred to the counterfeit dies. Level 2 are the elements unique only to the source coin which are transferred to the counterfeit dies. These markers would be common to the source coin and all counterfeit coins struck by the counterfeit dies but would not be exhibited by any other authentic coin except the source coin. Any coin, except the source coin, exhibiting these markers would be a suspect counterfeit. Level 3 are the counterfeit die markers. These are produced during the actual manufacture of the counterfeit die. These markers are unique to the counterfeit dies and will be common to all counterfeit coins struck by the counterfeit dies. These markers would not be exhibited by any authentic coin, including the source coin, because authentic coins were not struck by the counterfeit dies. Any coin exhibiting these markers would be a suspect counterfeit. While a counterfeiter can always produce new and better dies from a level 1 and level 2 marker aspect; level 3 is a different issue altogether. The newly counterfeit dies will contain their own set of unique markers created during their manufacture.
I just read the link and thanks. Do the counterfeiters only need high resolution photos to make a counterfeit die or do they need an original coin?
Cool, from my original post of my 1797 S-139 large cent... @Insider I would be interested in the original column as well.
They could possibly do it from a high resolution image, but an actual coin would be better. With a high res image they would have to scan it into their computer and then use software to render the two dimensional image into a three dimensional code in order to cut the die and that could result in errors in relief. With an actual coin a laser scan can read the relief information directly and render a better fake die.
So for the coin in question, since the fakes appeared a couple years after the genuine example was sold at a Goldberg auction in 2013, one wonders if the auction buyer's intent was to use the coin to create fakes. It would be interesting to find out who the buyer was and whether or not he/she sold the coin before the first fakes were discovered.
If you were the person who made the fakes it would be to your advantage to sell the real one before selling the fakes. Because if the fakes are discovered it would become much more difficult to sell the real one since it's contact marks would match those on the fakes. The real coin could be condemned as a counterfeit. Think about the "Vampire Hub" counterfeit bust dollars. Somewhere out there is a genuine 1795 B-14 bust dollar with the two "fang marks" on the neck that was used to make the counterfeit hub. But if it ever comes up for sale people will take one look at it, see the marks and dismiss it as a fake. As for finding out who bought the coin from the Goldberg sale that probably wouldn't be possible unless you were there, and even then there is a good chance you wouldn't know, and the Goldberg's would not give up the information. But if you were there and noted the buyer number that bought it, you might be able to see if that number bought anything else and then have a new target to seek put other counterfeits. Whether the Goldberg's would give out that information I do not know.
I asked for the Goldberg information but received no response at the time. Consignor confidentiality is one of the issues.
One other possibility that is less likely. Joe the dealer buys the coin in auction for a cheaper specimen at his show table. The counterfeiter scans the show for potential model coins and buys it to make his die after it is repaired.
