The Official Grading Experiment, Phase 2, #3

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by physics-fan3.14, Feb 15, 2020.

?

What does the coin grade?

  1. AU-58

  2. MS-60

  3. MS-61

  4. MS-62

  5. MS-63

  6. MS-64

  7. MS-65

  8. MS-66

  9. MS-67

  10. MS-68

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    At the conclusion of Phase 1 around Christmas, I began to think that the photos I was using (from Heritage) might be biasing the grading guesses. So, I want to host Phase 2. I will again be using standardized photos, but this time I'll be using PCGS TrueViews. Again, we will stick to problem free US coins.

    So, let's grade some more coins!

    All you have to do is guess the grade! I will be attaching a poll to each thread. Please select the grade that you think best represents the coin (to avoid bias, please select your grade before viewing the rest of the thread).

    Also please post your opinions about the coin, and it would be most educational if you could explain why you chose the grade you did.

    We're going to cover a wide range of material, and some of it may be out of your wheelhouse. However, if you are a confident grader, you should be able to accurately grade almost any coin.

    GTG phase 2 3.jpg
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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  3. furham

    furham Good Ole Boy

    I said 63, but I'm generally not very good with gold.
     
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  4. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    This coin is brutal. The obverse looks AU58 and would max at MS62 if what I'm seeing isn't wear. The reverse looks MS64-MS65. I am going to guess (stress the word guess) that the coin is net graded as mint state as an MS62.
     
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  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I went 62 on this one.
    Although very baggy it looks to have decent luster.
     
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  6. JBOCON

    JBOCON Well-Known Member

    Copper spots detract, but the bag marks bring it to a 62
     
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  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Boy I sure wish you'd add grades to your poll that go low enough to be what the coins actually grade. Instead of what some TPG says they grade :)
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    What would you grade this coin then, with no poll constraints? And could you explain why you would grade it that?
     
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  9. GoldBug999

    GoldBug999 Well-Known Member

    I don't see any wear, but there are so many dings and scratches on the obverse that I gave it an MS-60. The reverse is nicer, probably MS-63, but the obverse is just too messed up.
     
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  10. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    63. Average looking, decent luster and strike, surfaces not too clean, not too trashed. The reverse is nicer than the obverse, naturally. I've seen coins like this graded higher, especially for 1904, but they languish in cases as low end coins. The copper spot isn't bothersome, and would be fine on a coin of a higher grade.
     
  11. GoldBug999

    GoldBug999 Well-Known Member

    I agree with GDJMSP - in general, you should put in a wider range of possible grades.
     
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  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    55 at best because it's got obvious wear all over the obv.
     
  13. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    ...
     
  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I am limited to 10 choices for a poll. I can't offer a wider range.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    C'mon now - drop the high ones when warranted, nobody is gonna guess that's a 68 !
     
  16. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Jason, Doug has a point, lose the MS68 and include an option for “other (please explain in comments)”. I typically include that option in case people see something that would make it a problem coin.
     
  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I will make sure I adjust polls up and down a bit in future threads.

    I don't want to include an "other" option, because that is impossible to count. I am intentionally excluding problem coins from these threads, so nobody should choose that.
     
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  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Jason I'd point something else out too. Back when you started all of this you stated that the actual grade of the coin should be what the individual thought it should grade. But all the way through your process you have been deciding right and wrong based on what the TPG said it graded - not on whatever anybody else, or the consensus said it graded.

    So did you change your own rules along the way and I missed it ?
     
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  19. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The TPG is the reference grade. It's the standard, and I'm judging CT's accuracy compared to the TPG. As you know, the TPGs have a wide variance. There are some barely-there 65's which should probably be a 64+, there are some really nice 65's which might be borderline 66.

    I am only choosing coins which I think are properly graded at the TPG grade. I know you've mentioned the semantics of these threads before - but in my opinion, these threads could be viewed either way. "Select the grade you think the coin should be" and "Select the grade the TPG assigned the coin" are different statements. I agree.

    However, I am intentionally selecting coins which I think are accurately graded. In this case, the two statements should be equivalent. Many threads are based on pointing out this difference - someone posts an undergraded or overgraded coin, with the intent of pointing out the TPG's error. That's not the goal here.

    Perhaps this introduces some bias into the results. I acknowledge this. However, I don't think it is significant enough to worry about, especially when I have guesses from 55 - 63 for the same coin, or an even wider range of 58-67 on the Liberty nickel in the other live thread.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  20. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Good originality, good luster, good strike, modest grazing of the surfaces, and few deep marks. Probably MS64, possibly only MS63.
     
  21. kSigSteve

    kSigSteve Active Member

    I went with AU58 which was my initial feeling of the coin. The more I looked at it the more I figured it was in a 63 slab but I think this one may have been accurately graded as a 58 if it does have wear so I’ll stick with that.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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