The Million-Dollar Dip

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Marsden, Mar 10, 2023.

  1. Marsden

    Marsden Well-Known Member

    This Coin World story got me going. I really like the look of that Morgan.

    A bit beyond my pay grade at $372,000, but that's nothing compared with the record $2M for the issue.


    Which I don't even like so much, no matter what the experts say about the surfaces.

    Though, apparently, someone felt like I did and shaved a cool million off their own example by dipping it. I should probably stay away from coins like that.

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  3. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    No thanks that ulgy... I had a ngc slab and it had a ☆ & + in 65 it was the ugliest coin going .... even had a finger print in the toning. Yet it got a grade as such....
    And someone will love it...ugh...
    GoldFinger1969 and panzerman like this.

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You need to read the article again.

    The coin you pictured above with the splotchy toning - that is/was not the example that sold for $2 million, but a completely different coin.

    The coin you pictured above, before it was dipped, sold for $357,500, after it was dipped it sold for $546,250.

    "At one time, another 1893-S Morgan dollar known as the Norweb example was considered a peer. It realized $357,500 at the Bowers and Merena 1988 auction of the Norweb Collection, Part III. It was subsequently “dipped” and was sold in a Numismatic Guaranty Corp. MS-67 slab at a 2011 Heritage auction for $546,250 "

    edit - My point is this, even though this is what was said about it -

    " Of that coin, Heritage wrote in 2011, “This piece has brilliant surfaces throughout, unlike its 1988 appearance in the Norweb sale, indicating that the coin has been conserved since that time.” As Legend observed, “the originality of the coin has been lost.” "

    The coin still sold for more after it was dipped.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Regarding the coin mentioned with the $2 million figure, the coin never sold for $2 million. That was merely the asking price.

    " That Stack’s cataloger stated, “It is a challenge to adequately describe the gorgeous appearance of this coin. If we employed all the superlatives necessary to do justice to its magnificent colors and surfaces, we might be criticized for saying too much.”

    There it was sold uncertified and graded by Stack’s as Superb Gem Brilliant Uncirculated, bringing $414,000.

    It was later offered at Legend Rare Coin Auctions in October 2017 where it went unsold on an estimate of $1.3 million to $1.5 million. It had been purchased by its then-consignor from Legend via a private treaty sale in October 2008 for a price “in excess of $1,000,000” according to Legend, and was later offered privately with an asking price of $2 million. "

  6. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    As I gasp the only word I can say is "WOW"

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Uh, the first line in the article states that it was sold at GC for that amount. Here's the sale.

    Comparing the two coins and their respective sales, you also have to consider 2011 versus 2021. The PCGS coin went unsold in 2017 for $1.3-1.5M, so in 4 short years that coin went from unsold at ~$1.3M to sold at $2M+. We have no idea what the "dipped" coin would sell for now (which to me has way better eye appeal regardless of the "conservation").
    Marsden and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  8. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'm with you, but the bigger point is not whether toning should detract from the grade or's if the toning is HIDING more blemishes and bagmarks and/or circulation wear/friction.

    I wonder how the grading experts can tell ? I can say this I believe with way they can grade something like this accurately and correctly within 20 seconds. :D
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Would it have sold for MORE without being dipped, GD ?

    Others can chime in, too !! :D
  10. Marsden

    Marsden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I read it again and I don't think I have it wrong.


    And the point about the Norweb specimen (not pictured, incidentally) isn't that it's not worth more than it brought in 1988—of course it is—but that the captioned comp indicates that its owner likely threw away a ton of money when he dipped it. Probably over a million dollars.

    That's what the experts quoted in the article were saying, and that was the impetus for the thread. I had no idea it would become contentious. And I have no idea why you insist the $2M coin didn't sell for $2M. Do you know something that Coin World doesn't know?
    charley and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I think it's just confusing Marsden....thanks for clearing it up.
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But the title of your thread - The Million-Dollar Dip , and when you say this -

    - what coin are you referring to ?
  14. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    "shaved a cool million off their own example" meaning a different coin, followed by a quote from the article "At one time, another 1893-S Morgan dollar...", which clarified it for me. But we're all clear on it by now, right?
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Clear on what exactly though ?

    What I'm clear on is this - there is no coin mentioned in the articles that had a "cool million" shaved off its value after it was dipped. And, that the coin that sold for $2 million was not dipped at all. There never was any "million dollar dip" to begin with !

    And the coin that wad dipped, it significantly gained in value after it was dipped - it did not lose any value because it was dipped.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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