Ok well not really theeeeeee biggest question but one that I have been wanting to get a definitive answer. Regarding the state of "Uncirculated" Is Uncirculated more of a "condition" of a coin than really a measure of if the coin had actually seen some circulation? I've gotten some brilliant state quarters in change that certaintly "SEEM" someone could pass off as Uncirculated. Is this where the grading service comes in to do their detective work and slab the coins to give the potential buyer that extra confidence?
I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to get a definitive answer to this one. Personally, I believe in the literal term of circulated which means if a coin is used in even one transaction, it is circulated even if there is no wear. When describing in terms of Mint State however, the coin could pass through one or more transactions and still be considered Mint State if there is no damage or visible wear. I think this is why the grading went to a numbering system. In my opinion, you could theoretically have a brilliant MS64 coin that is not technically uncirculated if it was received in change or in some way that indicates that it was used for at least one transaction. I am curious to see what the others have to say on this topic, because it seems that this is like so many other areas of numismatics and is predominately subjective.
circulated is a term of wear and tear, isn't it? I mean, a coin can be 'uncirculated' in the dictionary sense of the word, and be carried in a gentleman's pocket for 20 years... I doubt it would be mint state. But is it uncirculated? I guess I consider uncirculated, as it relates to the hobby, as any coin that does not show signs of wear, that generally result from trading of hands for exchange. So, I guess I think uncirculated, in this term, is more of a condition than a literal definition of use in commerce.
I agree, and so do the grading services. Depends on the eye of the beholder. You can send a slabbed AU58 coin back and about 1-10% of the time, you'll get a slabbed MS coin in return. It can go the other way, to. Some services are more consistant than others, but none are 100%. Coin grading is more an art than a science. The best way to ensure a coin is truly MS is to get opinions from several experienced graders/coin dealers/numismatists. If you get 90% or more agreeing it is MS, then that is probably the best you can hope for. On one end of the grading spectrum you have folks who believe that any scratch or ding makes a circulated coin, and at the other end, some folks will call a coin all beat to heck with significant 'stacking marks' and toned ugly an MS piece as long as it doesn't have a significant rub on many of the high points. You should look for the majority opinion somewhere in between these extremes, as most of us do. I particularly like the ANACS approach to grading, where they will give a 'technical' grade, then sometimes a lower 'net' grade for detracting marks or damage. This seems to cover both ends of the grading debate.
IMO, I think is should be more about condition and if the grading service gives it great marks for that the overall appearence then that the way it goes. How many of the Ebay transactions are truely circulated coins that would still grade out very high? And so I'm told that Ebay is one of the standards to consider a coins worth.
A coin grades uncirculated until there is enough accumulation of wear at the high points to cause a break in the luster. Theoretically a coin could circulate for years and remain uncirculated if everyone were careful with it and handle it only by the edges and keep it out of coin counters and vending machines. In practice, of course, this is impossible and the average clad quarter will recieve enough abuse that it will have luster breaks after only about six transactions. It may also pick up some more bagmarks and other signs of collisions with other objects but it is the integrity of the luster which determines if it's mint state or not. With any coin you can spot the high points by tipping it nearly horizontal with an incandescent light opposite. The high points will appear to rise above the surface. Now look at these points from other angles. They will normally have the same color and texture if the coin is uncirculated. If these points are grey or covered with fine scratches then the coin is circulated. Some older coins are almost always found with a "rub" on the high spots and the convention at the current time is to grade them unc anyway.
Plain and simple, "uncirculated" means no wear from circulation. On the Sheldon grading scale (as used by the top tier TPG services), that covers all "Mint State" grades ranging from MS-60 to MS-70. Now, the hard part is determining which grade in that range a particular uncirculated coin merits. And yes, there are "borderline" coins that could grade AU-58 or MS-63, so that expands the "hard part" for certain coins down to say, perhaps, AU-55!
ya know something i know lots of people love toned coins ,but personaly i like blast white and if i was in charge of grading in the world i wouldnt consider a toned coin as being uncirculated, how it was when it was made is uncirculated to me not changes in the colouring that just dont count for me at all, no matter how nice it looksas in the one your showing rmb. Any nicks or dings to me invalidate it being uncirculated too.even small ones.I know depending on the size of these they can still be graded ms65+ but to me they shouldnt be. Having said all that i dont mind ef40-au+ coins at all to me there the best value for money there is.i dont think that extra cameo or blast white no small rubs coin justifys the 5x + money they seem to command.you still; have a strong solid featured coin in them grades that does distract or disappont.Then i also wouldnt give anything more than scrap value for a coin under vf no matter how rare it was its just wrecked in my opinion. then what do i know ive only been intrested in coins for a wet weekend compared to lot of people here, its just how i personaly feel about coins.
Another question about "Uncirculated"...what about bag marks? Can a coin be Mint State with bag marks? David
well, I believe it was Mike who recently gave a great post about 'damage' to coins throughout the minting process before they ever see true 'circulation'. I can't remember what thread it was in, but many coins are considered in less than MS condition before they even reach the first hands to hold them. I wish I could remember where it was posted.
Considering how almost every coin starts its life, if bag marks disqualified a coin from an MS grade there would be fewer MS coins than there are true MS70s now! To paraphrase the famous real estate comment, the three main ingredients of MS status are luster, luster, luster.
Depends on who you ask. Read through the replies in this thread and you'll see that opinions differ from person to person, and that's all grading is, an opinion. I will accept some bag marks on an uncirulated coin.
Once I recieved some Kennedy halves from mint rolls on eBay and I thought the marks were unattractive so I sent them back as I was not pleased with them. They just didn't look like gems that I have gotten from mint sets. Maybe I can be too picky sometimes... David
Picky is the name of the game. Any UNC coin should have no sign of wear. Bag marks are easy to spot, and are not wear.
Thanks ND. I generally buy single coins from mint cello. I guess buying UNC coins from bags would be cheaper. At least they'd still be mint state... David
