The 1909 S VDB

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bqcoins, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    The 1909 S VDB cent is probably one of the most sought after American coins in the numismatics. Think about it; nearly all collectors either got started collecting lincolns or collect lincolns seriously sometime whilst engaged in the hobby.

    image courtesy coinfacts.com
    The problem with this is that there were only 484,000 of these coins minted. Considering the low mintage, the survival rate of this coin was probably fairly high due to the fact it was a first year issue and lincoln was quite a popular figure.
    When you combine a great ever growing demand with a finite possibly shrinking supply you can deduce two things. There will be a lot of collectors that never get their 1909 S VDB and there will be a lot of collectors that purchase a fake 1909 S VDB. In a market where the price for even a specimen in good is constantly rising and quickly approaching $1000, it would be far better to be in the first column than in the second. But if you find yourself in the position to purchase a 1909 S VDB, I 1) recommend buying a slabbed coin from a reputable TPG, and 2) know what you are looking for diagnostically on the coin and how to tell the real thing from a fake because even the "experts" get it wrong from time to time.

    The first thing to note is to get your self a loupe that is 20X or better just for looking at the mint mark. Because this is the first thing to focus on. The same S mint mark was used on the lincoln cent from 1909 to 1917.

    image courtesy oicoins
    Note the arrow pointing to the die chip inside the upper loop of the S. ALL genuine s vdbs will have this. There is a notch in the upper serif and the mint mark is of an even width at top and bottom, with perfectly parallel serifs. The upper serif is even with the lower curve of the S and the lower serif is even with the upper curve of the S.

    There were four obverse dies used to create the 1909 S VDBs.
    [​IMG]

    Looking at the 4 images above you can see the placement of all the mint marks in relation to the date. They all have the same stylized S mint mark as described above. I will not go into great detail about the mint mark locations as the pictures describe it better than I could. This is the best representation I have ever found with regard to the mint mark placements.

    Just a note: Die 4 is by and far the most common of all the dies and is the easiest to attribute.

    The last diagnostic to key in on is on the reverse of the coin, the V.D.B. It is not recommended to use the periods on the reverse to determine authenticity, because of the fact that some were struck weakly and the periods can not be made out. Rather, the shape of the V, the bottom half of the D and the last two bars in the B should be considered. The V is quite distinct the left side should be uniformly thick from the top to the angle while the right side should narrow noticably starting thick at the top and thinning as it reaches the angle. The angle itself should be sharp. The lower curve of the D should angle slightly upwards on a real specimen as the middle bar of the B should rise from left to right on a slant and the bottom curve of the B should angle slightly upwards.


    I hope that this information serves you well when it comes time and you find yourself in the enviable position of purchasing the ever coveted 1909 S VDB.
     

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  3. TheNoost

    TheNoost huldufolk

    Thanks 4 looking out 4 us:thumb:
     
  4. Indianhead65

    Indianhead65 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info BQ. Great post!
     
  5. TC2007

    TC2007 Senior Member

    Good information BQ. I'm going to print this one out. I'm making the '09-S VDB coin #1 on my to-get list for 2009.
     
  6. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    What an awesome post. I will definitely use this info if I ever decide to purchase a 1909-S VDB. Love the toning on the one in the photo.
     
  7. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    a great big T H A N K S for this highly informative article.

    It's great to learn about our hobby!

    Clinker
     
  8. Coinfreak~24

    Coinfreak~24 Active Member

    i'v seen that coin before
     
  9. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    the image is from coinfacts, somehow it got moved down past where I posted it. Strangely enough, I visited my shop today and my dealer asked me about a suspicious 1909 S VDB. The front looked great, but the VDB was clearly mangled after being cut off a regular 1909, you could see the superglue marks off the sides of each letter.
     
  10. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Very nice post!
     
  11. logical123

    logical123 Senior Member

    Awesome post man! :thumb::bow:
     
  12. Arizona Jack

    Arizona Jack The Lincoln-ator

    Excellent post. Excellent.

    The image of the 4 mintmark positions is in the Wexler / Flynn book, a book every serious collector of the series would want. Out of print and difficult to locate, grab one if you ever see it.

    Watch Ebay for that CoinFacts image as well, it is often used by scam sellers, you'd be suprised how many times that same coin was sold, lolo.
     
  13. Phoenix21

    Phoenix21 Well-Known Member

    Very, very, well done man!!! :thumb: Very nice job with the post! I learned a few things, thanks! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

    Phoenix :cool:
     
  14. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Same here. Very good, BQ; thank you! :thumb:
     
  15. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Doug should move this to the permanent information section, IMO

    Ruben
     
  16. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    I'll second that. This should be in our numismatic resources section.
     
  17. Just Carl

    Just Carl Numismatist

    Lots of good info here but why not just make references to the places where that all came from instead of repeating it all? For instance I usually tell people to go to places like www.coppercoins.com or coinfacts or The Lincoln Cent Resourse web site. Detailed reports such as this get lost but those web sites with the same info is there all the time.
     
  18. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Excellent post, thanks for the info.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Why ? So no one will ever see it again ? Here - it will be seen. Put it in there and it likely won't.

    I would say that near 95% of all questions asked on this site could be answered by looking in that section - but nobody ever does, or very few.

    Besides, you can find pretty much the same info in there now.
     
  20. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    You need to post an FAQ in all the forums on a regular basis.

    Ruben
     
  21. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    BTW - I read your work, so FWIW
     
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