Hey, I was wondering what the patterns of toning on some toned Morgan dollars is caused by. Many say it's textile toning, but it looks more like fingerprints because the textile would not be twisted and bent at such angles. Thanks for any help!
Those definitely look like fingerprints. I am sure textile toned sells better in a description than fingerprint toning. Don’t read too much into the descriptions and gather your opinions on the coin itself.
So how do fingerprints create these areas with no toning? Do they leave grease or something which affects the toning process?
Yes. The oils on your skin get left on the surface of the coin. Imagine a fingerprint on a mirror - you can clearly see the pattern left behind. Exact same thing on the coin.
This coin from Heritage shows classic textile toning. Notice the series of "dots" from the date, across her chin, to the stars? That is from the canvas bag, and this coin probably rested right up against the bag. Some coins show patches, some show it more extensively - this is a pretty prominent and clear example.
Actually the oil ( sebaceous ) glands do not form on the palms of the hands, but the sudoriferous glands ( sweat) do form on the palms of humans. The corrosive changes of a fingerprint are caused by the salt compounds of the sweat glands in the area. Jim
Here are a couple I have had in my collection for quite a while, never sent away, but interesting. Jim
I don't see the textile on the left one. But the right one is... interesting.... I don't see textile Peace toners often. However, that pattern is backwards. The "dots" are usually the light areas, not the inverse as your coin shows. Are you sure that is natural toning? Because I'm not.
IMO both Peace dollars are AT. As mentioned by @physics-fan3.14 textile toning normally appears as dots in a toned pattern. Those dots by no means need to be the light areas, but they do need to be in the toned areas. I've attached an image of a Morgan of mine where the textile pattern is obvious. With regards to bag toning of Peace dollars, it is MUCH more difficult to find than on Morgan dollars, for (at least) two different reasons. The first and most obvious reason is that the Peace dollars spent significantly less time in their bags than the Morgan dollars did. The second reason, AS I UNDERSTAND IT (not having held both Morgan and Peace dollar bags) is, that the weave of fabric in the Peace dollar bags was much tighter than the weave of the fabric of the Morgan dollar bags. This limited the amount of air movement in the bags. I have owned, but no longer own, a Peace dollar that did have some textile toning, but it is much fainter than on a Morgan dollar. You can see the weave is indeed finer than on Morgan bags. I've enclosed a picture of it too. Note the textile pattern about 3 o'clock on this Peace dollar.
I saved that website as a Word document, graphics and all. How can I attach it here @Dave Waterstraat?
I decided to take screen shots of the document. Hopefully, they won't be too blurry when zoomed in on. Here goes...
That page has always been a very important resource. I've referred people to it numerous times. Weird that it is giving an error now. Not to hijack the thread, but anyone know what's up with the notorious Jhon E. Cash?
This. I use that page to as a resource when teaching the Morgan class at ANA. It would be a pity if it is all lost.
The website was down at one point last year and then came back. This might just be temporary. For anyone who wants to access it, you can use the wayback machine (internet archive). This is the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180817230355/http://jhonecash.com/coins/tonedmorgans.asp
No, it is not natural toning, I watched the person make them using a old cruddy mint bag he had collected somewhere, This was in 1980, he was experimenting with H2S gas is a 3 liter desiccator container in a chemistry lab. It was an empty $1000 bag as I remember. He said he usually did it slowly in pulses to get more realism to the toning, so these were just to show me. He sold them to me for the price of silver and died 2 years later. I suspect if he had let the fiber absorb the chemicals rather than gas flow them through the weave in a hurry , the texture might be more realistic. I have no idea where the actual coins are in my possessions, but the are labeled as AT. Jim
