Hello from France, it is my first topic on coin Talk .............. so don't be cruel I am an atypical amateur insofar as I am interested in Greek and Roman monetary history through a recurring mythological character and his attributes : Hermes, Mercury, Turms. This interest "transports" me from the Pillars of Hercules to the foothills of the Hindu Kush over a period of about 6 centuries, so that I cannot target either a region or a particular period to hold the realy adequate specialized documentation. I recently purchased the Tetartemorion AR (6mm, 0.17g) below It represents - on the obverse a Corinthian helmet on the left - on the reverse: an amphora and a caduceus framing the symbol all within a filiform frame Regarding the origin, the seller indicated: "Troas Neandria circa 450 BC" As I was trying to find out more, I found a (small) number of similar coins (6 including mine) in sales over the past few years. According to sellers, the provenance was: - TROAS. Neandria (mine) - THRACE – MACEDONIA (2) - MYSIA – Proconnesus (1) - ASIA MINOR. Uncertain (2) I also found in comments on almost identical coin (Hemiobol or Tetartemorion with Corinthian Helmet + Amphora) sold in 2014 " Varieties of this type have appeared at auction recently, and have been tentatively attributed to Neandria in Troas, where an early fraction featured a helmet on the obverse. While an attribution to a mint in that region is reasonable, Neandria is probably not correct, as its early fractions consistently feature a ram or barley grain on the reverse, which were emblematic of the city. At the same time, the nearby city of Larissa consistently featured an amphora on the reverse of nearly all of its coinage, which would make it a more likely candidate" - From CNG This opens the door to an additional provenance: TROAS Larisa I've scoured internet for items and the only clue I could find relates to Proconnesus in Mysia, where there are Tetartemorion with a vessel on the reverse with the symbol which also stands for (Margaret THOMPSON - The Coinage of Proconnesus) (the last two of the Weber Vol III_part1_ASIA collection) But .... - The frame is hollow - The vessel is an Oenochoë and not an amphora - The obverse depicts a horse Do you have an idea as to the possible provenance of "my" Tetartemorion or other ways to explore? cordially François
Welcome and thanks for posting It appears that Thraco-Macedonian is the concensus. But that is only compared to a few similar coins on ac search: https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1¤cy=usd&order=0 I would love to know where the find site were for your rare little coin.
If we only consider only the coins where the reverse corresponds exactly, we have: with as origins : - TROAS. Neandria (mine) - THRACE – MACEDONIA (2) - MYSIA – Proconnesus (1) - ASIA MINOR. Uncertain (2) "THRACO–MACEDONIAN" and "ASIA MINOR. Uncertain" are too vague to be satisfied with them Mine comes from Savoca Coins - Blue 122nd Blue Auction -12.2022
Welcome to CoinTalk, @Montmercure. Great little coin. I would advise you to contact Savoca and ask them where did they get the entry. When I contacted them to get some clarification in regards to attributions, they always replied promptly.
That coin looks great; wish it was mine. Published collections tend to be short on tetartemoria, as they were not considered impressive. Before metal detectors tended to be confused with debris before cleaning and not even seen as coins. I know of no published examples of this type. It is your responsibility to attribute it. Helmets, amphoras and cauduceii are common on ancient coins; we shouldn't put to much stock into figuring out which cities used those things. What is interesting is the letter Pi on some examples and the leaf on https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2544041 . The same auction where you found this had two other coins that greatly resemble your coin. Probably they all had the same origin. The type is the same as https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=120875 which was sold in 2008. Did you find anything earlier? Typically if a cataloger can't attribute something s/he makes a guess based on what other coins came in the same consignment. Figure out the first auction appearances of the type, see what is written in the lot description, then look for other coins of the same city appearing from the same auction house during the same timeframe.
During my research I did not find anything before the cng sale of May 2008. The description made by CNG is interesting because it mentions "Tzamalis" who is a researcher who wrote a thesis about The ethné of the “Thraco-Macedonain” region. History and Numismatics (end of the 6th – 5th c. B.C.) https://www.theses.fr/2012PA040004. Unfortunately I can't contact him or get his thesis :-( I think that - as suggested by ambr0zie - I'll question Savoca (I have not done it before because until now my questions with other auction houses have resulted in no response)
You're wright, I'll question Savoca (I have not done it before because until now my questions with other auction houses have resulted in no response)
I agree that the best clue probably lies in 'Π'. It's on (almost) all examples and dies, and it's also unlikely to be a sign of denomination or a magistrate here. That leaves denomination of the polis as a likely meaning for the letter. Just my two cents, of course... And welcome to CT
Excuse me for my late response, I am in contact with a tetartemorion specialist, who indicated me that the Pi could mean an origin of: Pale (Cephallenia), Parion (Mysia), Pitane (Mysia), Potidea (Macedonia) or Phokaia. but there are no similar coins referenced therein; I questioned the seller who has not yet answered me (will he do so)? in short : the mystery remains ...... but the adventure continues François
