Sutherland plus Cloke & Toone web page

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by jamesicus, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    I have re-written my Britannic coinage of the Tetrarchy annotated Photo Gallery page as follows:
    • The London Mint coinage information is now based on THE ROMAN IMPERIAL COINAGE, Volume VI, Londinium (RIC - Sutherland) and THE LONDON MINT OF CONSTANTIUS AND CONSTANTINE (CT - Cloke/Toone) which includes considerable additional and revised material, including a new catalog numbering and attribution system and a rarity assessment for each listed coin.
    • RIC uses follis/folles as the nomenclature for this coinage while CT uses nummus/nummi.
    • I use RIC catalog numbers for all coin depictions (if applicable) and include equivalent CT catalog numbers where appropriate.
    • CT uses a rarity assessment scale for London Mint coinage which I believe is realistic and up-to-date being based on four significant Census Hoard finds that comprise over 3,000 London Mint coins:
    • C - Common: 25 to 150 examples (over 150 - very common CC)
      S - Scarce: 5 to 24 examples
      R - Rare: 0 to 4 examples (0 - very rare RR)
    • The CT catalog system seems very complex at first blush, but I have found it to be very easy to use with a little practice.
    This is the first of my web pages on which I have melded the information contained in these two seminal London Mint references together. As with any updated web page there are undoubtedly some errors and omissions. I ask all Forum members who are interested in this coinage to please review this page and post comments, corrections and suggestions here.
     
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  3. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King

    Great page, going into my permanent bookmarks.
     
  4. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    A lot of great coins and a very informative site. I really like the example you have of RIC VI, Londinium, No. 20.
     
  5. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Thank you @Aethelred and @randygeki. All Cloke/Toone (CT) attribution information is now in green
     
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  6. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    The coin rarity assessments listed in RIC are mostly based on reported occurrences in public and private collections over an unknown period of time and do not appear to be held in very high esteem by most present day ancient coin dealers or collectors.

    Cloke & Toone base their rarity assessments on the number of surviving examples found in well documented hoard discoveries. The four hoards surveyed for this section of their book were:

    Domqueur - Bastien & Vasselle, 1965
    Bridgend - Besly, 2002
    Sully IIA - Besly, 2011
    Sully IIB - Besly, 2011 (and forthcoming)

    Over 3600 London Mint Tetrarchic coins from this time period were found and examined.

    It remains to be seen how much credence will be accorded the C&T rarity assessments.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Curtisimo and Alegandron like this.
  7. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Well this is an interesting coin Randy. I have vacillated in attributing this coin. I originally listed it as a “Bastien Intermediate” based on the long laurel wreath ribbon tie laying on the neck and the differences in inscriptional lettering styles between the obverse and reverse: the obverse features the heavier serifed, more compact, letterforms favored by London Mint engravers of the period and the reverse features the more delicate and refined letterforms favored by Lugdunese Mint engravers of the period. I believe that two different engravers produced the respective dies for this coin at the London Mint re-opened by Constantius after his invasion and conquest of seccessionist Britain. So why have I now attributed this coin as RIC 20? Well, I am not that confidant about my Intermediate attribution. After further research I may change that attribution.

    RIC VI, Londinium, No. 20, Constantius, Caesar of the West
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 2.01.010 (1), c. AD 296-303, Rarity: C


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    FL VAL CONSTANTIVS NOB C ........................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI

    Laureate, cuirassed, bust
    9.8 gm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Coins like that are equally frustrating as they are interesting.
     
  9. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    The Abdication commemorative coin issues of Diocletian and Maximian Herculius
    were produced with both obverse legends depicted below.

    Cloke/Toone assert those (London Mint issues) with BEATISSIMO (most blessed) are Rare and those with FELICISSIMO (full of joy - sensu lato) are Common.

    RIC VI, Londinium, No. 76b, Maximian Herculius (Abdication commemorative):
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 4.01.003, c. May 305 - Spring 307, Rarity: R


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    DN MAXIMIANO BEATISSIMO SEN AVG
    PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG


    Obverse: Laureate bust of Maximian Herculius in Imperial mantle holding mappa in right hand and olive branch in left hand.
    Reverse: Personification of Providentia, standing left, and extending hand to personification of Quies, standing right, holding olive branch and leaning on sceptre.
    9.8 gm.

    RIC VI, Londinium, No. 77a, Diocletian (Abdication commemorative):
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 4.01.002, c. May 305 - Spring 307, Rarity: C


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    DN DIOCLETIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG
    PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG


    Obverse: Laureate bust of Diocletian in Imperial mantle holding mappa in right hand and olive branch in left hand.
    Reverse: Personification of Providentia, standing left, and extending hand to personification of Quies, standing right, holding olive branch and leaning on scepter.
    9.6 gm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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