Suffix Symbols Used on Large Size Paper Money

Hello Friends...

Of recent I have been studying Large Size Notes with quite some fever!
What I have noticed on many different Series is that "suffix brackets" or symbols which ever you decide to call them were used with quite a few examples.
Looking on the internet for such printing marks, symbols, brackets, and general printing from the 17th and 18th Centuries I have drawn a blank!

Here is what I have found so far on different examples of note with the Series Dates listed by the symbols. How many more can you identify?

Do any of you have any knowledge on these or other /like symbols used on US Currency?
From my finding, I have asked 3 very well known Authors of US Currency Books if they had any information and the answer has been NO, or that the symbols are meaningless!
They had to be invented by someone and labled a "name" so one would think.

Do you even for a moment consider folks of the time saying " I need one of those thingamagigs"! for the paper money SN end!

Any help would be cool and appreciated.

Please forgive my crude hand drawing of the symbols..it's the best I could do since I cant find them published anywhere!!


RickieB

 

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Design # 27 (notes 169-182) series of 1875 $100 has a nazi looking cross. Is this called an embellishment? Maybe a counterstamp? I don't know much about currency.

 

Been looking at this also http://books.google.com/books?id=SG...a=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPP1,M1

 

Folks, if you run into any additional symbols, please render them by hand and post here. I think it will be interesting to find out about them, if possible.

RickieB

 

Will do, out of curiosity - why by hand - why not build an actual image library? I have often wondered about these myself when looking at different notes.

Best Regards ~ Darryl

 

Hey Darryl....

An image library would be great!! It would involve owning an example of each note with different symbols unless you got a copyright release from the notes owner.
I have toyed with the idea of my own manuscript one day..but well I am a Scientist, not a author.LOL

What I would really like to find is a reference to the typeography(not sure I spelled that right) used during the time frame of the printings and the use of such symbols that were approved by the US Gov at the time.

That would be pretty special!!


RickieB

 

do you mean an Iron Cross?

Rickie, I'm very interested to see these different types of designs and know what they are!

 

No explanations, but this site has images that show these symbols.

http://www.bestcoin.com/us-currency.htm

 

Buffalo....

What I am looking for is symbols other than what I have already rendered pictures of...
Finding the origin of these symbols and who adopted them for US Currency is the ultimate goal.
I am planning on writting a letterto the BEP to access old archives to learn of these.


Thanks for posting...

RickieB

 

Yeah, an Iron Cross. It's from paper money of the US by Robert Friedberg 3rd. Ed.

 

Wait, I thought that any images of coins/paper money are automatic public domain? The bills are a work of the Federal Government, so an image of said item head on automatically inherits the PD status, irregardless of who photographed it. If i'm reading Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_v._Corel

 

No way!! You might want to read the US Copyright Laws!!!
Once a photographer takes an image, it is the property of that photographer and you need permission to use it! Just as in a Model release....or anything else.
Just cause the Gov printed it does not mean anyone can copy it?
There are Laws on defacing Coins Currency....Photography and writting is a whole different entity!



Regards,

RickieB

 

RickieB,

All I could find is the following:

"Large stars after the serial number of the 1869 series of United States notes , and 1890 and 1891 Treasury notes, do not signify replacement notes as are known in later and present day notes. Serial numbers on early large size notes were preceded by a letter and where ended by various odd characters or symbols. These characters are not known to have any significance, except to show that the number was terminated and prevented any elimination or addition of digits. The suffix characters were replaced by alphabet letters on later issues of notes."

That's all I been able to find so far.

Lou

 

Yeah, but according to the Case, the item being photographed merely transfers it's copyright state to the photograph, irregardless of who took it.

If I took a straight or near shot of say, a book cover,i'm a copyright violator. If I took a photo of the sides of a book, without even showing the cover, i'm ok seeing that a book's size or it's sides (unless they have some sort of design or other factor) isn't subject to copyright laws.

Likewise, since most coins (IIRC, the State Quarters are actually Copyrighted by the US Mint, go fig) and paper money are public domain items, merely photographing/scanning them straight on and adhearing to the rules on reproduction automatically gives the photo a public domain status. I can't claim a scan of a dollar bill is mine, because the dollar bill is something created by the US Government, and since many works by them are public domain, including stuff done by the BEP, and no creative aspect is involved.

 

you may be right RickieB, as i dont know much or follow many rules lol

But any protection of the note is only limited to the use of the image in its entirety. For example, using part of the note without using or completely blackening out the serial, would make the image completely undistinquishable from another note, making it impossible to tell where the note came from. So using just the de-linear thingy without using any other part of the note would not be considered as copyright infringment.

Aslo, with copyright laws, i thought anything posted on the web was 100% public domain unless otherwise having the authors rights reserved in writing on the site or page of the protected image. But like i said, im not up to date on copyright laws

 

Cesar...

I own a photography business on the side...if I were to image my collection of notes and you wanted to copy them, you would have to seek my permission! I own the copyright to those images......
If the Gov has an image database and they let you copy the images then I agree with you...much like the mint has on it's site.
But if you copied one of my images without my permission I could sue you on copyright infringement up to $100,000.00
That my friend is the Law!

Regards,

RickieB

 

Daggar, you may have a point iif you copy only the symbol itself....but to put together an image library I would want to show the symbol on the proper note it belongs to....even if the symbol is meaningless, it is part of the note and to document the symbol in my eyes is to document the note.....
When I do images for people on the side, I sometimes provide the assignment of copyright. Sometimes I sell that right to reproduction as all photographers do or have done.

Regards,

RickieB

 

i would agree with troodon that any image posted is public property. Nothing posted on google or the internet as a whole is copyright proof, so the mere posting of the image is acknowledging that it is ok to use (this is why i watermark all the notes on my site)

but if you are interested in using an image, but do not want to offend the owner, black out the serial number, so nobody knows whose it is. or request the use of the image from the owner. i am sure most will say it is ok.

 

Can you take a pic of a pic in a book and post it?

 

Er... I haven't posted anything in this thread before now... I think you mean to attribute that to someone else?

And I wouldn't agree with that statement anyway... posting an image on the internet does not mean that the copyright holder has abandoned his rights to the image. A copyright may still apply. Your best bet is to find an image that:

Is public domain (either by the copyright expiring, or by never having been copyrighted, or that the producer of the image has released into the public domain).

The copyright holder has granted permission to use (either to you specifically, or they state that it can be used under certain cases. Some copyright holders give open permission to use their images as long as they're given credit for owning it.)

You create yourself (in which case, making the copyright holder you!)

Just remember, just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's free. I'm a firm believer in respecting intellectual property rights, and not just because of the risk of being sued if I don't!