Strange Hibernia Farthing

Hi gang!

I ran across this piece in a deal a dealer sold me. I originally wrote it off as just a normal Hibernia farthing. I later then noticed that it has the date of 1723 but the reverse style of the 1722 or type I's.

Is this something new?? Is this some sort of contemporary or later counterfeit??

Anyone have thoughts?

 

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I can't find a match for either the obverse or reverse on Heritage. The G is left of (rim on top) the closest match i can find, even with the 1722s. The reverse is not an exact match for the 1722s either with the R centered over the head.

I did read that some prototypes were made in medal orientation rather than coin orientation.

If it is a copy, it's a very, very good one.

I recommend further investigation with Hibernia specialists.

 

I'm going to see Tom Reynolds next week at the Indiana state show... He's really my only real EAC contact. I'll see what he has to say about it.

 

Matt - do you have this book? It's a complete die study of the series.

http://www.amazon.co.uk//gp/offer-listing/0615153968/sr=/qid=/?condition=new&tag=bf-dt-home-21

 

I don't see all that much Hibernia coinage so I don't have that book. It might be worth investing in tho.

 

You can borrow that from the ANA library if you're a member. It's in their catalog.

 

I've got the book and there is nothing like it in there, very curious. I think I would try to get a photo of it to Syd Martin, the author of the book. He is a member of C4, The Colonial Coin Collectors Club, may be able to contact him through the club.

 

I just realized that this is indeed a half penny and not the farthing as I had originally identified it as.

 

I was going to suggest that when I first saw this thread, LOL
That explains it then.

 

Not really... from what I can tell this halfpenny was never made in this configuration in 1723 either.

 

Top Middle on this Link http://www.yorkcoins.com/george_i_-_ireland.htm

HIBERNIA 1723, seated figure of Hibernia left, looking left, harp left,

 

Note the date. That piece is dated 1722 while my piece is dated 1723.

 

Yes but in the text it says 1722 and 1723 I believe its a variety

 

I spoke with Tom Reynolds about this piece today on the phone. He said he was "perplexed" by it and did not know what it was. He was going to try to get in contact with Syd Martin concerning this piece. I got the impression that this piece was not normal... I guess we will see.

 

No, no halfpennies in Syd's book like this either. There may be a match for the obverse however. There are a LOT of different obverses, if I get a chance after recovering from Sandy I'll try to find a match.

 

Let us know what you find out. I think you have a match for the obverse (Type 1) IR1628, but the reverse is different. The description on both left harps is called 1723, but I've seen no 1723 dated coins for any left harp.

 

I think I've narrowed the Obverse down to Martin 4. But the Reverse appears to be a prototype. No 1723 dated Halfpences have the date low like this or harp left that I can find. But a known obverse die increases the likelihood that it is real and not a replica/modern token.

The first Martin 4-Bb appears to be an exact match with only the 2 changed to 3 on your piece. Oddly, there is another Martin 4-Bb which is obviously a different obverse die.

"Also note the bust is from a different device punch. This bust has longer ribbons and no bow while the previous example has two shorter ribbons with a large bow above."

The reverse die is also different. Note the upright of R is to the right of the center of the head on yours and the first Martin 4-Bb and to the left on the second.

http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinText/HiberniaHD.1.html

The only thing left for verification of a new variety that I can see is checking for tool marks to make sure the 3 was not modified from a 2 post mint.

 

OK, got it. There are 104 variations of Martin's obverse 4. The coin in question is obverse 4.1, it is also a later die state, identifiable by the size of the small die chip behind the head. This is where it gets disapointing, Martin states that Peter Rosa used this obverse to make counterfeits, often with incorrect dates. He also states that he has in his collection Rosa counterfeit harp left coins dated 1723 and 1724 with obverse 4.1. Rosa operated as Becker Manufacturing company and made these coins from 1955 to 1990. There is a 1723 harp left Becker copy pictured that appears to be identical to the coin here right down to the apparent die crack above the seated figures head. I would say it is almost certainly a Becker copy.

 

Excellent detective work. If this is a Replica/Counterfeit, then there should be some evidence on the edge of the coin according to the article I found on Peter Rosa Replica's. He used a casting process and joined two halves together.