Strange Greek Coin I need help to ID.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Xodus, Jan 27, 2024.

  1. Xodus

    Xodus Well-Known Member

    Greek Coins
    UNCERTAIN. Ae (Circa 3rd-2nd centuries BC).
    Obv: Eagle, head left, standing right on thunderbolt.
    Rev: Filleted thrysos between crossed cornucopias.

    15mm. I can't seem to find anything. Would love some help. Thanks!
    4893871.jpg
     
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  3. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Very rare, apparently. Your specimen (ex Naumann 64 [1 Apr 2018], 17) may be the third example, all in commerce (seems like they could even have been found together).

    Probably unpublished. (Note: I'm having trouble loading corpus-nummorum.eu, but for a ref. no., they may have published one of these by now.)

    (The others cite it as a variant in Edith Schoenert-Geiss' [1965] Perinthos book, which you can read online with a little digging. It's in the corpus-nummorum digital library, but that's down, so you'll have to find another digital copy...)

    The other two:
    Roma E-90 (18 Nov 2021), 382
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8789146
    8789146.m.jpg
    Greek
    Thrace, Perinthos Æ 15mm. 2nd half of 1st century BC. Filleted club(?) between crossed cornucopiae / ΠΕΡΙΝΘΙΩΝ, eagle with closed wings standing to right on thunderbolt, head reverted. BMC -; SNG Copenhagen -; Schönert, Perinthos -, cf. 137-8 for a different type with crossed cornucopiae; Gorny & Mosch E-255, 3085. 2.15g, 15mm, 7h.
    Very Fine. Extremely Rare; apparently the second known example.
    From a private UK collection.


    Gorny & Mosch E-255 (10 Mar 2018), 3085
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4790807
    4790807.m.jpg
    GRIECHEN
    THRAKIEN. PERINTHOS. AE (2,46g). 2. Hälfte 1. Jh. v. Chr. Vs.: Zwei aufrecht stehende, gekreuzte Füllhörner, dahinter Keule des Herakles. Rs.: ΠΕΡΙΝΘ[ΙΩΝ], Adler mit geschlossenen Schwingen auf Blitzbündel n. r. stehend, Kopf n. l. zurückgewendet. Schönert, Perinthos ; Varbanov III . Grüne Patina, vz
    Die Datierung der Münze in das 1. Jh. v. Chr. erfolgt aufgrund einer Emission von Kleinbronzen mit gekreuzten Füllhörnern auf den Rückseiten (vgl. Schönert, Perinthos Taf. 5, 137 und 138).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2024
    philologus_1, sand, cmezner and 6 others like this.
  4. Xodus

    Xodus Well-Known Member

    Wow! Thank you so much. That's really to know this is the 3rd one known :) I really like the design on it. It's amazing what you were able to do Curtis, big ups to you my man. I can now attribute this :)
     
    Curtis likes this.
  5. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Happy to have helped! It is really cool. (One more below, so I think fourth now.) Your reply reminded me to double-check; sadly, corpus-nummorum.eu is still down (wish I knew why). I checked the wildwinds page for Thrace, Perinthos....

    They have an example too (contributed in 2016, making it possibly the first example shared online), under "Schoenert 137-148 mule".

    Wildwinds calls it a "mule or test strike." But it was struck with different dies from your coin. Across all 4 specimens, looks like 2 or 3 obverse and reverse dies, which makes it seem more like a regular issue -- just a very rare one. (Notice also the different legend break, with the Θ being right or left of eagle head. Not sure if the legends vary in content at all.)


    NOT MY COIN
    Schoenert_137-148mule.jpg
    https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/perinthos/Schoenert_137-148mule.jpg

    Perinthos, Thrace. AE18. Mule or test strike. 3.0 g.

    Crossed cornucopiae with narrow club between them.
    PERIN-QIWN upwards to left and right, eagle standing right
    on thunderbolt, head left.

    Schönert-Geiss 137/148 mule (but with the addition of
    the club between the cornucopiae). Apparently unpublished.
    Not in Schönert-Geiss; BMC; Moushmov; Mionnet etc

    Contributed by Scaevola of the Forum Ancient Coins, March, 2016
    https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/perinthos/Schoenert_137-148mule.txt



    The Historical Context:

    Also, notice that it's described (based on Schoenert-Geiss) as 2nd half of the 1st century BCE.

    Very interesting period for Greek coinage! The Greeks were mostly under Roman control, but still issuing pseudo-autonomous coins. (But influenced by Roman types and denominations.)

    Many 1st cent BCE Greek coins were struck in the middle of the Roman Republic's civil wars, as it died and became the Empire. Many of those battles were fought in (and over) Greek territory.

    I believe Brutus' governorship included Thrace, given by the Senate so he & Cassius could fight Marc Antony & Octavian (still friends then).

    After doing away with Brutus & Cassius, Antony & Octavian (don't forget Lepidus!) divided up the provinces & eventually fought each other for the whole ball of wax. I think Thrace was part of Marc Antony's dominion, which he shared with Cleopatra.

    So, for me, the big question with these is always: Before or after Actium (31 BCE)?

    If after Actium? That would mean it was struck under Octavian/Augustus. (Could the symbols be representing him/his legions, celebrating his victory?)

    Before Actium? Maybe Cleopatra's eagle? She was fond of eagles on thunderbolts (being the last Ptolemaic ruler; it was their symbol), and hers and Antony's mints often used that imagery. (In a different thread, I posted a specimen of mine that was probably from Cleopatra's Greece with a very similar eagle/thunderbolt: https://www.cointalk.com/posts/24672204.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
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