"Stolen" Photos on Ebay

Howdy peeps,

We run across sellers that "borrow" other peeps pics to either sell a coin they do possess or to scam others, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to show ya'll what to watch out for, since there are usually tells.

Here's a stolen photo:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1830-Large-One-Cent-Coin-graded-fair_W0QQitemZ220390984793

Here's where it came from:

http://www.largecents.net/collection/coinpics/1830n6.jpg

Tom is a friend of mine and he was the one that alerted me to the theft, so I know he didn't give anyone permission to use the pic. If you will look in the seller's store, you will see one more coin for sale and the pics don't look the same, which is the greatest tell of a photo thief. Sellers pics will almost always have the same look to them so if you ever run across a seller who's pics are all different, beware! :whistle:

Ebay won't pull auctions for photo theft, unless the copyright owner complains and I think that's a crock! Their rules clearly say that the pics have to be of the actual coin for sale, yet they won't enforce that rule. I think it's time WE complain. So feel free to use the Report Item Button at the bottom of the page. :hammer:

Ribbit

 

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Well, this guy has a total of 2 transactions, and 2 bids so far on this item. He does say the coin he is selling is graded "fair". However he defines that term. With the bid at $12....something, my bet is someone will be very disappointed when that "fair" coin shows up in the mail. Might, and I stress the word might, be worth $10-$12 in "fair condition".

Good catch.

 

I actually see Ebays point. If they pulled auctions from every complaint there would be mistakes. It would also allow folks to really mess with good Ebay sellers.

 

No it wouldn't. If auctions were open to public commentary, for every unfair comment or accusation you'd have 10 in the opposite direction. Besides, unhelpful comments could be voted down (and the opposite for helpful comments). This system works and would prevent thousands of scams.

 

This is a very common problem on E-Bay but I don't really mind it as long as it is an actual photo of the actual coin for sale. I see E-Bay auctions with Heritage photos all the time. Here is one that I am almost positive is a hijacked photo by a powerseller. I almost purchased this coin from Anaconda a few years ago and that photo looks very familiar. You be the judge.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=360138223238

Here is the original photo by Brandon Kelley on the Anaconda website.



We should e-mail the seller and tell him if you are going to use someone else's photos, at least have the decency to post a clear photo, not some blurry re-sized thing.

 

Maybe he has a coin that looks similar... still a bad idea (and against eBay policy). I don't understand why a seller would use someone else's pic (unless he doesnt have a camera or scanner). On a side note... if you bought a coin on eBay and decided to resell it, would it be OK to use the original seller's photos?

 

I am 100% certain it is the same coin. No way that two different 1937 NGC PF66 Lime Green Buffalo Nickels exist with the same exact toning pattern. I can't prove it is the same photo because it has been manipulated by re-sizing, but the chances that it is not the same photo is infinitesimally low.

I can completely understand why someone would use a Heritage or Brandon Kelley photo for a coin like this. Taking good photos of toned proof coins is extremely challenging and sometimes almost impossible.

Personally, I would not use someone else's photos on a public sale without the original photographers consent. However, most people are not me, and I have pretty decent coin photography skills that are improving all the time. However, in a private sale, I would use them giving credit to the original photographer. For example, I might present the potential buyer with my photo and an additional photo from the original seller to show them two different vantage points.

 

I sent a question to the seller of the OT and he replied:

Leave me a bid or leave me alone! Someone else is going to
purchase that coin anyway and there was no copy right on the
picture that I saw!

 

Many dealers have no problem with the buyer using the images.
I always ask if it's ok and have never been turned down.

 

huh...thats...huh

 

As much as I don't like it, I understand and actually agree with eBay. There are only 2 people who can prove that the seller does not actually have this coin and that the lister does not have permission to use that photo. One of them is the seller and the other is the owner of the photo (Tom?). Any information from any one else is nothing but hearsay. Hearsay is not admissible in most court cases and definitely should not be used by eBay for any purpose. Just think what kind of trouble I could cause anyone here if eBay listened to hearsay.

 

Now that guy needs an education. I wonder if eBay would act on that email.

 

Heresay is when I say someone did something without tangible proof but when I can point to physical proof and show that the pics are identical, hence, "borrowed" or "stolen", it's no longer heresay, it's a FACT! I reported a boat load of Chinese sellers that "borrowed" pics from various sources on Ebay and it was without a doubt the same pics, used by each seller (possibly a joint effort or the same person with several usernames) and Ebay wouldn't pull them and gave me a lame excuse that the seller may have given them permission to use their pics. :goof: Ebay's rules are clear, the pic must be of the actual coin so when someone presents absolute proof that a pic is stolen, Ebay should remove the fraudulent auction and I call it a fraudulent auction because the pic being used on the OP auction isn't a copper in "fair" condition and peeps judge by pics, not words, so some poor smuck is going to bid that up thinking it's in better condition than it really is, hence, the rationale behind the requirement the pic must be of the actual coin for sale.

Ribbit

 

I run into this problem fairly often with my own photos being stolen and used. First let me say that I don't have a problem if someone is selling the same coin that is in my photos. That is completely different than the big issue at hand which involves misrepesentation.

The strangest thing I run into is that the sellers always deny that they are using my picture. They say it's a different coin and a different picture. It's so annoying to have to go out of my way to prove why it is absolutely the same image, because I know that they are already aware of this.

I have complained to eBay about it to a bunch of times over the years as items are located, and eBay almost always takes immediate action. There is an actual law about ownership and stealing images called the VERO act.

Some people also use my pictures of coins for stock photos. That annoys me only because I wish they had simply asked permission. I can't picture a scenario where I would say no unless they were directly making money from it somehow and refused to include me. The Penny Lady had a picture of a 1909-S VDB on her web site's collage that was mine. I sold it on eBay several years ago. It's kind of funny to see my images pop up like that and realize how much of a geek I must be to know the exact coin and why it is my photo, even before I dig out the file. Yeah it bothers me that she didn't ask, but she seems to be an honest person otherwise so I didn't have a problem with it. Stock photos taken that are not intended to represent coins for sale are not nearly as unethical as someone selling a coin that they don't have.

Media such as photographs are automatically copyrighted to the person who authored them; there are no measures one needs to take in order to make sure they are copyrighted. So saying "there was no copyright on the picture I saw" is like stealing something off the shelf of a store and saying you didn't pay because there was no price tag.

 

Sorry, but you have no proof where the coin is. You know where the pic came from. That you can prove. How do you prove where the coin is? The only way is for you to talk to the owner. That is hearsay.

 

True! Tom told me, so that is heresay. :goofer: I didn't take into account the actual coin but then, what about the ones with the Chinese sellers? The pics they stole were from current active auctions on Ebay! :goof:

Ribbit

 

And you cannot prove that the "Chinese sellers" did not buy the coin they have pictured. Logic says they PROBABLY do not have the coin, but you have no proof who has it.

 

Are you a fan of slashdot? This might not work for ebay though because there are some seriously bitter people and unfair monetary forces to obscure slashdot like moderation.

Ruben

 

How could they have bought it/them if it/they was/were still an active auction? :goof:

Ribbit

 

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