Standards for Die Alignment/Rotation in Capped Bust Coinage

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Publius2, Nov 1, 2023.

  1. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    This is really a two-part question regarding the Capped Bust coinage; half dimes, dimes, quarters and half dollars. The first one asks how people orient their obverse and reverse photos. The second asks if there are generally accepted standards for defining die rotation.

    When I take photos I typically have a grid on my computer screen showing me the coin as seen through the lens of my DSLR. I align the outermost two digits on the obverse date with a horizontal grid line connecting the tops of these two digits. The reverse is aligned using the top of the denomination "5C". This is just arbitrary on my part but is based upon my assumption that the denomination is the most important of the reverse devices. But I noticed that in many of the classic reference publications on this coinage (LM, Tompkins, Overton), the reverse is usually but not always horizontally aligned with the horizontal lines of the shield. Also, PCGS TruView photos don't seem to favor either method, they are all over the place between these two extremes. The obverse in most of these literature references seem to be aligned by top of the date. TruView photo shown below.

    So, the question here is: What do most of you think is the "best" or preferred means of showing these coins? I am looking to see if there is any consensus of taste and also to see if there is a non-subjective reason for preferring a particular view.

    The second question is related to the first. In speaking to die rotation, the standard terminology refers to the reverse rotation in relation to the obverse. For that to have meaning, there has to be a standard understanding of where the X and Y axes of the obverse lie and also what the zeroth rotation of the reverse is supposed to be. I could relate here all the pros and cons of one system over another but that would unnecessarily lengthen this post.

    So, the question here is: What are the obverse and reverse standards used for die rotation determination of the capped best coinage, if any?

    I have not seen these questions addressed in the literature. It may be old hat to you more-experienced numismatists but new material to me.

    1833 LM-4.1 PCGS TruView.jpg
     
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    For the obverse, I don't really have a set standard - but I try and make Lady Liberty look in a natural position. The problem with aligning to the date is that the digits were hand-punched, so if I'm flipping through pictures the bust is going to rock back and forth. I don't like that.

    For the reverse, I always align the horizontals on the shield to be horizontal. Again, trying to align to the denomination will lead to a dizzying array of orientations, since none of them are identical. Aligning to the shield means that all of the lettering will vary - but the main, central element always looks the same. I just find this to be more pleasing when looking at a set (such as in the Registry).

    JPA883 obverse.jpg JPA883 reverse.jpg
     
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  4. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I agree absolutely. All the lettering was added by hand to each working die which is why and how these individual dies can be identified. Additionally, the master die had the eagle but without the azures and pales of the shield. Those were added to the working dies by hand but are generally well-aligned from working die to working die since they had to be engraved within the border of the hubbed-in shield outline.

    On the obverse, since the effigy of Liberty was hubbed into each working die, it seems to me that a line drawn horizontally across the bottom of the drapery to the bottom of the curl is at least consistent from working die to working die since the date and stars were all added by hand to each working die. Does that result in a pleasing orientation? Subjective, of course.

    So, that's my preferred system. But what system is actually used?

    Thanks for the comment.
     
  5. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Alignment by the date makes Lady Liberty lean backwards and I don’t like that. Alignment by her figure looks much better to me and it puts the date on a slight angle. That I can live with.
     
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  6. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Enjoyed the post and the read, thanks.
     
  7. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I always try to align the horizontal lines of the shield horizontally.
     
  8. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser I may be old but I still appreciate a pretty bust Supporter

    I have enough trouble simply aligning the slab--you can forget trying to orient the coin.:(
     
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  9. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    The reverse is easy, you align the horizontal bars on the shield to be horizontal.

    The obverse I rotate until the bust of Liberty no longer looks unnaturally leaning one way or another. This is roughly aligning the bottom of the first star with the bottom of the curl, but it depends on the type.
     
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