First off, let me state that I am new at this. I bought my first Silver Eagle last January and now want to start building a collection. Last March I ordered 4 2008 W Uncirculated from the mint and got rev 07's. I ordered 4 more later and got what I was actually hoping, rev 08's. I sent these off to NGC in hopes of getting a MS-69 and MS-70 matched sets so I could study the coins and learn to spot the difference. One coin, which I thought was the worst came back MS-70. The coin has two shiny spots, one above the white wing tip and one around the lower stem of the N in ONE. I searched the archieve and found a thread about 2006 Silver Eagles having spots but no information on the cause or how it effect grading. I also goggled the internet and found A.) Silver is shiny and B.) Shiny spots on coins are called "Shiny Spots". I need some help here. My intention is to keep 2 sets and ebay 2 sets. I would like an evaluation so I can honestly list what I have. Also, should it go back to NGC for a re-grade?
Follow-up on the pics; In the top photo you cab see a dark spot next to the right wing across from the second and third row of stars. In the bottom photo when the light hits it right it becomes a shiny spot. The same thing happens with the dark shading at the base of the N near the E in ONE. On another coin, I have also found the same shading at the base of the N only much less pronounced, which leads me to believe that this was produced by the hub and not the planchet. On the other 2 coins I have, there are identical "specks" above the point of the first A in AMERICA on both coins. What I'm calling a "speck" is a reflective pin point like the one next to the D in DOLLAR. Is this how to identify indiviual hubs or am I reading too much into this? Below is a photo of the Multi-Holder with the rev 08 on the left which I think is an honest MS-70. The strike was deeper and the relief is shinier. The lighting exagerates it a bit but not all that much.
Yes, they call it a multi-holder. It's meant for coin set like the Anniversery Eagles. I wanted each variant in a single holder so I could compair them side by side.
Cool! Nice proof set. The Franklin seems to pop out, bet it's a beauty. This was the first time I submitted and should have sent in my proof also. Maybe next time.
It's sort of nice. Just remember, you are paying for each coin to be graded. So I paid to have 5 coins graded for that one slab. Fortunately they graded high enough to make it worthwhile. Unfortunately I'm having trouble imaging the individual coins. My techniques don't work well with proof coins.
The problem with digital cameras is that auto focus works against you most of the time. I've got a Sony Cyber-shot that I took these with and used natural light an flash. The key was to set the camera to macro mode, set the zoom all the way out, and place the camera about 4" from the coin. Having proof coins can be challenging due to the mirrored field surface. The thing to keep in mind is that you are taking a picture of the reflection in the mirrored field. One technique is to setup a white sheet or a piece of foam core board and light the sheet and not the coin. It then becomes a balancing act between keeping the reflection off the holder but having some of it showing on the coin. I'll have get one of my proofs out and play with it. I'll post if I have any luck.
With regular coins I light them at a low angle (20-30 degrees) from the side. I get enough reflected light from the surface irregularities of business strikes to do a good job. I also use "macro" mode. The problem with this technique and proof coins is I get essentially NO reflected light from the field surfaces. They turn out black. Next time I'll try: - a higher angle, or - a diffusion reflector or filter (plastic milk carton), or - both
I think you nailed it about using a side light from a 20° to 30°. I tried it earlier and got a better relief definition in some photos. Last night I played around with a proof and got some interesting results. I used a bounce card as my only source of light. In the first I tilted the coin as not to reflect the card, I then tilted the coin to get a reflection. Here's the results:
The black went away but the white card reflection made it look like a BU. I then taped a pizza ad from a mailer to the card and got this. Also included is a shot of the rig. I used a couple of card board boxes and a black terry cloth towel as the staging ground and used 50 watt Par30's as my light source. I'm going to try a combination of the side light and perhaps a light blue bounce card next. I deffinately need to build a board to hold the coin and provide better tilt control.
C Jay, When it comes to MS69 and 70 it makes little sense to me. To me 70 is perfect. Period. That should include overall eye appeal. A "shiny" spot detracts in my opinion. I went through a bunch for boss to send in. I saw flaws on every coin. Even if they were miniscule I don't think it merits a 70. Well, 4 of the 5 he sent came back as 70. List on ebay as they are. People are buying the slab not the coin in my opinion.
That's what I think, how can this be an MS-70. I'm new at this, so first I bought the books, then I got a few coins graded to see what the "pros" had to say. WTF, so much for the pros. Here's what I interperate the books to say; Contact marks: none, Hairlines: none, so this qualifies as a MS. Luster: fair, Eye Appeal: Planchet or Hub problems near key area. I'd give it a 63 although the obverse is problem free. If I could do the old school split I'd rate it as an MS-65/63. I think I'll get my Eagles served up raw.
Just wondering what strength magnification you were using , IMO there is no such thing as a perfect coin , I thought MS-70 meant no added marks since it left the dies . If you look with enough power you could see defects in anything , though I agree people are buying the slab as the diffrence between MS-69-70 is tiny . Still beautiful coins though . rzage
The flaws (spots) I found without any magnification. I have a x10 loupe but I think it's a bit too much. I think I'm going to get a x5 magnifying glass so I don't have to squint through the eye piece. I love these coins and enjoy the classic relief of the Walking Liberty. This will eventually lead me into Walkers and Piece Dollars, but I want to get a little more looking and reading under my belt first, so I know what I'm looking at.
Very good idea , I wish I had done the same . Like they say buy the book befor the coin . Good luck in your collecting .:smile:whistle: rzage
Jay, I have an NGC 70 08/07 reverse silver eagle thing, that I purchased early on. It also has those shinny spots that you mention. One on the rim is very noticeable even without any magnification. A number of these sports are visible if you tilt this coin and examine it under minimum magnification. I too ponder this question of should this coin be a 70. Seems it comes down to when these shinny spots appeared. If they were done during the minting process then that is fine. This just does not seem right to me either but as they say live and learn. I also examine a couple of raw 2008 silver eagle and found they have these shinny spots to. What I think I have been able to find out is that it was caused by the dies but I really do not know. I have a 2006 w Silver eagle also in a NGC 70. It is truly a flawless coin. The difference between these two coins it like the difference between night and day. I also thought of sending my coin back to NGC for a regrade but not sure if it is worth the time , trouble and money. If you wish to sell it then list it on ebay. You might want to mention that you are not a professional grader and if they have a problem with the grade then take it up the the grader since grade is subjective.
I'm thinking that these spots were caused by slight inperfections on the hubs. I got 4 from the mint. 2 have a speck above the A in AMERICA and 2 have a spot on th N in ONE. The spot on the N in my MS-69 is less pronounced and I haven't detected any on the wing like the one I have pictured. This leads me to believe that the hubs degraded as more coins were being minted. It also leads me to believe that we can catolog coins from each of the 15 hubs that the mint claims were used. As far as grading goes, two services have had their MS-70 selling on Ebay. PGCS has been selling for "totally outrageous" while NGC has been going for "just plain ridiculous". I think maybe PGCS is holding to a higher standard than NGC, since they are also grading very few MS-70's while NGC in running about 50%. As far a selling on ebay goes, I think I can present a decent photo of the coin, and I'll mention the spots. All I care about is getting back the grading and coin cost, the rest is gravy, or more eagles.
