Hi, Lanz Numismatik has good reputation, but I heard counterfeits seldom found their way once in a while. eBay is such a platform that facilitates getting rid of the unwanted coins as the refund period is tremendously short and evidence (the listing) gets erased after a period of 3 months (typically). I came across two Cilician obols (1)(2) that are too identical to be true. ===================================================== These Cilician coins exhibiting a crowned bearded man (Great King?) at the obverse and the forepart of Pegasos at the reverse are usually tagged as R2 rarity. This makes the whole affair suspicious. Only three days of bidding...for such a high quality R2 coin...hmmm. Furthermore, this year, a source, which I won't name, released tons of these coins. Indeed, we can see many of these Cilician coins popping at big auction house names. Yet these R2 coins were virtually absent before that source released these coins. Perusing the blog Numismaticfakes has fueled a nascent paranoia in me. What do you think?
Well, definitely the same dies ... ummm, or from the same bunch of basement casts? Yah, I suck at finding fakes in the "fake database" ... => ummm, either way the crappy centering would make me stay away (my OCD hates me when I buy comes that aren't symmetric)
I agree, @Napata. Very suspicious. Same dies/molds. I don't see how the clustered round "dents" could exist on a real die.
Lanz once had a good reputation but they have cheated me, refused to reply to inquiries on a purchase I made and regularly post tooled and fake coins if you believe the fake seller sites. I choose to buy my fake coins elsewhere. I believe the name was sold and the people posting these coins are not the once respected doctor.
The coins could have been struck by the same dies - I can't comment on authenticity myself as I have not studied the series. I would like to make one correction: Lanz does NOT have a good reputation. They sell many, many, tooled coins, and even defend the practice.
This^ Shame Lanz name continues to linger as a good dealer but the past several years it's farther from the truth. I got two fakes several years ago and a headache to get a refund. I also had coins never arrive where 2 other German dealers I have had no issues with, Hostilian was most recently actually. Just view the Lanz feedback, stay away even if there is OK coin in the listings. They could list a "Standing Concordia" Lucilla Denarius I need, very rare. But I wouldn't attempt to bid given my past experience & how they treat customers on ebay. I will continue to wait, even if it's years.
I also agree that they are HIGHLY suspicious and the centering is so bad that I'd skip on those regardless. I can't recall a positive post about Lanz since I joined CoinTalk...
I have gave up on Lanz when they have lost my coin shipments more than once. In fact, I have yet to receive a coin from them! Paypal had to step in to reimburse me on several occasions. None of the lost packages left Germany! Never doing business with them ever again
20161017 Update Well, well, well. The level of eeriness rises again. Another case is found: CNG eAuction 385, lot 273. I do not know if CNG is respectable in your books, but it might be a case of undetected suspicious coin not yet withdrawn (because no attention given to it). These round dents...where do they come from? The new case from CNG has the two series of dents aligned in the exact same fashion. Could it be the perlkreis (beadframe) of another one of these Cilician obols' obverse? Mystery thickens... Also... Somebody will soon pay over €100 for that sleazy coin.
Not too much movement on this topic, so I will chime in. Obverse and reverse die matches are not unusual with ancient hoards. In fact, they can be extremely common. However, it can come down to statistical analysis. How many are previously known, how many are now on the market? Even if they were previously rare a new hoard might make them common. But plenty on the market at this time mean little other than a hoard has come to light. But on the flip side of the coin (heh, heh), the source can also be an indication. Lanz used but have a good reputation but now significantly less so (for reasons outlined in many other threads). But, again, that means little if they were the ones to buy the whole current hoard. I will be time and study by many people to determine if they are good or not. Having said that I do find those circular depressions odd. They may in fact be some relic of genuine production, but I dont know. But their appearance on all examples are cause for extreme concern.
That is the answer. We're looking at a case of multiple dies matches – not at all unusual in the ancients field. Except in this case, the reverse die was clashed, resulting in the impression of the beaded border from the obverse.
Really? ... I would have figured that those weak impression-dimples would have worn-off fairly quickly and all of the examples seem to have roughly the same amount of wear (I still think that it's fishy) ... oh well dude, you're the CNG-pro (but I'm certainly not gonna bid on one of those babies anytime soon)
