Speaking of Counterfeits, Apollonia Pontika Drachm

Seems we have a few counterfeit threads going on already, so let me pile on another one. Now, before we start discussing it (if there is a discussion) I'm not saying this coin is a counterfeit.


Apollonia Ponitka, Drachm
late 5th to 4th century B.C.
AR12.7 / 2.8g
O: Facing head of gorgoneion with protruding tongue and serpents around head
R: Anchor with crayfish downwards to left, A to left
SNG BMC 151

I went ahead, ordered this coin, and got it in hand already. Mostly because of the seller and mostly because I didn't do my entire homework before buying it.

A little bit about these coins. Apollonia Pontika Drachms, the one with the Medusa's face and anchor/ crayfish were replicated not just once but twice. According to Wildwinds, the first time was in 1988 which was known as the Black Sea Hoard. And then again in 1999 as the New York Hoard. You can imagine how many fakes there are of this coin if lots of counterfeits surfaced twice. It seems that a factory in Bulgaria made these and most likely still continues to.

I looked at the dies used to make the counterfeits online. I haven't seen the one that I have, listed under it, so I'm hoping its not a counterfeit. If it is, please let me know. Would really like to see more examples of this coin so I can compare and learn more about it.

 

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Your coin isn't the style of the Black Sea or New York Hoard forgeries. It could be another type of counterfeit I suppose, but I doubt it. I don't worry about these too much. They are pretty common - at NYINC I searched through a hoard of them that looked exactly like your coin. The hoard looked authentic because the coins were dirty, heavily worn, many struck off-center, and many had test cuts. They were hastily made and heavily used in commerce, and they ALL had the same style as your coin.

 

Ok, cool. Wasn't too worried, it didn't cost much and am pretty sure the seller would have taken it back if I had any problems with it. btw, it came from Frank Robinson coins.

 

they call that place in bulgaria a "studio" that makes counterfeits. i'm sure there's real coins there, but i'll not ever buy anything suspect of being kin to that country again for that reason.

 

Another good reason to trust it.

 

Yeah, when these coins surface in a discussion of counterfeit coins, I have to shake my head at the sheer audacity of the counterfeiters. As you said, these coins are not expensive, so why? Well, if you sell enough at a couple bucks profit each, a nice large sum will emerge. So every time I think to look at my example and I wonder.

 

I believe this one is real enough, but it will probably be my first and last of the type due to the Bulgarians sucking the fun out of collecting these. If not for that, I'd probably own several varieties of the type as they are cheap enough.

 

I have personally inspected over 100 Apollonia Pontika drachms similar to icerain's. No one has accused them of being fake. They all look good. I am somewhat concerned that I have never seen an example on the market that wasn't heavily cleaned. Because of the cleaning most of my tricks to identify genuine and counterfeit coins do not apply.

Because Apollonia Pontika coins are heavily counterfeited it is difficult to know what to do. I have gotten it wrong before. For example, I became convinced that a particular die was fake because it was in the wrong style and all examples I could locate appeared on the market at about the same time. I removed my example of that die from my web page. Yet after I began a die study I concluded that a specimen in the British Museum in the 19th century was from the same die. Moral: There are a lot of genuine coins of Apollonia Pontika that look fake too.

(Hopefully the above image is animated for you).

This coin looks silly. There are dots all over the place that don't normally occur on the type, including blunders on the tongue. The die is frequently re-engraved. The style is not right. Yet the most warn example was published in SNG British Museum: Black Sea!

I am not convinced all of these are real, but if counterfeit they are so deceptive as to be beyond my power.

 

From what I read. A dealer bought a lot of of authentic ones cheaply off someone who found a small hoard. When the person found out he go taken advantage of he found the person in Bulgaria and started making forgeries. After the forgeries were made, he doctored them to look like ancients, then went back to the same dealer and sold an entire lot counterfeits to him.

 

After holding off for a few decades I finally purchased one because the Gorgon head was particularly gruesome and well struck. www.mcsearch.info/index.html has quite a few auctioned thru the major houses as a place to compare probable good ones.
Authentic or Nay?

 

Man that is a wonderful Gorgon. From what I see, I would say authentic, but hey, I'm no expert.

 

I remember when I first collected ancients, stories about the Black Sea Hoard were appearing in World Coin News. I've been scared of them ever since...30 years and counting.

 

I have just bought this same coin from ancientground 99.9 % positive and accused him of a fake having seen the same coin from the same die a month previously. Suspicious

 

It probably is fake. His name is on every single eBay fakeseller list out there, for instance: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/fakesellers.html

 

Nay!

 

Picture of the coin?

 

Sorry not Mr computer ! Which icon do I press ?

 

On Cointalk, "Post Reply", "Upload File", "Choose File", "Full Image".

 

I have a counterfeit 1958 wheat cent. ALWAYS be on guard. Nothing is too cheap to be faked