Some non-Qing Dynasty copper cash (China/Japan/Vietnam etc.)

I'm sorting through some oddball Asian copper cash and trying to ID them.
Will post my attempts. Any speculation as to authenticity are welcomed.
Most were purchased unattributed between 1995-2005 from unsorted "Chinese" bins.

First up: I think this is an Early Republic of China 10 cash in the old coin format.
27 mm, 5.0 g
Obverse: 民国通寶
Reverse: 當十
Authenticity: ??? I'm leaning towards authentic. I don't have the Hartill book for Chinese cast coins, and can't find it in Krause yet. It looks realistically old/worn, and I don't think it's rare enough to attract counterfeiters.

 

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Next up: Japan Bunkyu Eihou 1863-68 (Edo Period)
27 mm, 3.8 g
Obverse: 文久永寶
Reverse: 11 waves
Probably Hartill 5.16
Authenticity: I think so. These are common and not expensive enough to fake.

 

#3: Northern Song Zhenghe 1100-25
8.4 g, 31 mm = 2 cash (1 cash would be ~3.5 g)
Obverse: 政和通寶 (Clerical script, not seal script)
Reverse: blank
Authenticity: ??? I'm not very familiar with this Dynasty.
The wear and patina look promising to me that it's probably not a modern fake.

 

#4) China 1 Cash Taiping Rebellion 1851-64
2.7 g, 21 mm
Obverse: 太平天国
Reverse: 聖寶
Calgary coins has this as S-1606. There are many varieties. Some have the reverse characters vertically instead of horizontally. They list 22.3 mm, 3.54g, so mine is a bit smaller.
Authenticity: ??? Too many varieties for me to ID without a reference book. I don't know if Taiping coins are widely faked. The originals were probably pretty crude.

 

I am in no way an expert in cash, and while I can spot more obvious fakes better-made ones may easily elude me. That said, none of your coins looks notably suspicious to me.
#1: Min Guo (People's Kingdom i.e Republic) Hartill 24.8, attributed to Dongchuan in Yunnan. Hartill lists it as rarity/value 12 ($15).
#2: Probably Hartill 5.16 as you stated.
#3: Either Hartill 16.448 or 16.449 (16.448 has the central part of bao square, 16.449 has it round. yours is kind of squarish-round, or roundish-square )...Either way, rarity/value 15 ($2).

 

Thank you! It's very helpful to have some feedback. I'm still a beginner when it comes to varieties of cash coins, and was much more so when I got these (usually for $0.99 each) ~25 years ago. It's particularly useful to know the province for that early Republic of China cash. Now that I know that, I was able to find it in Krause under Yunnan.

 

And two more from Vietnam in the Nguyen Dynasty (1820-41)
Obverse: 明命通寶 (Minh Mang thong bao)
Reverse: Blank
Both are ~23 mm diameter. L is 2.76 g, R is 2.26 g

In my foraging, Minh Mang has been the most common type of Vietnamese cast coin which I have seen in the US. I think I might have more kicking around, but these are the only two I have found in my collection so far.

Apparently, Vietnam was not rich in domestic copper deposits, unlike Japan and China. So their coins are often alloyed with lead or zinc and have a lighter color. Numista has links for Minh Mang for 1 Cash/1 Van of zinc, brass and copper.
I imagine those are alloys rather than pure zinc or copper. (Brass is an alloy of Cu/Zn by definition.) Mine vary quite visibly in weight and thickness.

Any good reference books or websites on Vietnamese cast coins to recommend?

 

#4: I have a couple of Taiping coins that I bought from Frank Robinson, who I trust to distinguish fakes, and they show similar crudeness to your piece. That doesn't mean nobody fakes them, though. I _think_ your coin is Hartill 23.18, rarity/price 13 ($10), though I've never seen a Taiping coin (even in crappy condition) as cheap as $10.
Annamese cash: Definitely an interesting subfield. The most comprehensive catalogue seems to be Edward Toda's book "Annam and its Minor Currency" (usually just referred to as "Toda"). It was first published in 1882 and the original is rare, though fortunately it's been reprinted many times since then (I think there is a copy online somewhere too).

Thanks for posting these. I used to collect cash as a focus, but drifted away and haven't really looked at my old collection in years. (My coins aren't even labeled with Hartill numbers.) I'm buying fewer coins right now, maybe I finally have time to go back and appreciate my cash collection.

 

Thanks! I found a copy of what appears to be Toda online for reference. Not that I have an original for comparison. I'll bookmark it. If I'm lucky maybe I have some other Vietnamese coins in my collection yet unknown to me.

 

Set #6: Another Japan Bunkyueihou 4 mon (1863-68)
The one on the left is the one I posted before (5.16) and the one on the right is the new one, which I think may be Hartill type 5.17.
These are a nice illustration how even coins with the exact same characters and general design can be considered different types. Both have the 11 waves pattern on the reverse and the characters "文久永寶" on the obverse. If you look at the right character, "永", you can see that the strokes are substantially different.


Here's Hartill p. 68 to show how to try to distinguish the varieties.
I don't have the other type for comparison to know if this is the "wide rim" (5.17) or "thin rim" (5.18) around the square hole, but I'm guessing it's the wide rim type.
This one has some paper stuck to it, so I'm going to give it a distilled water soak.

 

Set #7: Some more Japanese 4 mon coins, this time the Shin Kan'ei series.
Obverse: 寛永通寶 (Kan'ei Tsuuhou)
Reverse: 11 wave patttern
Size: 28 mm Weight: 4.63, 4.72 g

These coins were cast in several separate eras with near-identical characters, the Meiwa (1769-88), Bunsei (1821-25) and Ansei (1857-59) Eras. Hartill says the primary means of differentiating them is the color. The Meiwa are a brassy color, the Bunsei are a reddish copper, and the Ansei are a darker copper color. There were also iron issues, with multiple provincial variants. I don't have a way to compare the colors precisely, but to my eye, they look closest to the Meiwa series in color. The weight is also a little closer to Meiwa (listed as 5 g) than Ansei (4.34 g). I don't know that the weight tolerances were very precise on these anyway. All of the three main series are fairly common. My guess for these two is Hartill 4.252.

 

Set 8: Southern Song Emperor Kuang-Tsung = Shaoxi Era 1190-94
L: 27 mm, 3.57 g
R: 28 mm, 5.17 g (2 cash?) Maybe this on Numista
Obverse: 紹興 元寶 Reads clockwise from top, not top-bottom-left-right
Reverse: L: blank; R: numeral 1 at base (year 1 = 1190?)
Authenticity: ???
I'm new to these older types, and don't know if I can find the exact match. There are several types of copper and iron of various sizes. I thought the year should be as yuan (元) rather than yi (一) for 1190. The patina looks promising. This copper looks like it's been around for quite a while. Modern cast fakes can look crude and worn, but don't tend to have much color from aging.

Any advice on ID and authenticity (or anything else) most welcomed!

 

The azurite and malachite deposits tend towards authentic as it’s tough (but not impossible) to quickly fake malachite

 

Today: I attempt to learn to read seal script.
Two coins from what I believe to be the Northern Song Dynasty
L: 皇宋通寶 (Huang Song Tong Bao) 1022-63, 2.96 g, 26 mm
R: 治平元寶 (Zhi Ping Yuan Bao) 1063-67, 3.55 g, 24 mm
Reverses are both blank
Numista for Huang Song, Zhi Ping
Note that the left coin reads top-bottom-left-right, while the right reads top-left-right-bottom. The seal script versions of the characters are quite a bit different than the clerical script, much less the modern printed characters I am used to. Once one has a guess for the dynasty, it can be easiest to scroll through a list of emperors or coin pictures such as on Numista (keyword for the dynasty) or Calgary Coins.

As for authenticity, I'm not an expert, but they look OK to me. None of these are valuable enough to be a big target for counterfeiters, and the wear and oxidation look appropriate for the period to my limited knowledge.

Song Dynasty cash are actually more common than coins from Ming Dynasty. Apparently the Ming Dynasty didn't mint nearly as many copper coins and tried to use more paper money. After it was overthrown by the Manchu/Qing Dynasty, much of the remaining coins were accepted at only half par and melted down. Most plentiful now is cash from the Qing Dynasty, of course.

 

Working on this batch has inspired me! Got myself a present which should come in handy.

 

Two more Japanese Bunkyueho 4 mon coppers
The right one uses the traditional character for "treasure", 寶 while the left one has a simplified version, 宝. I think they are Hartill 5.17 (R) and 5.15 (L). It's nice to be able to see some of the varieties side by side to compare. As far as I can tell, these were made simultaneously in the 1863-68 range. These are some of the last cast coins made in Japan before the Meiji Restoration and the shift to modern minted coinage.

 

A couple more Northern Song Dynasty copper cash:
Zhen Zong 998-1003 咸平元寶

Ren Zong 1034-1038 景祐元寶


These can be narrowed down to a fairly small date range as Song Dynasty Emperors often changed era names multiple times during their reigns. While trying to narrow down the era dates for Emperor Ren Zong, the targeted ad helpfully claims to offer me his photo, address and phone number.

 

Here's another N Song

 

Beautiful patina!
I'm weak at seal script. Does it say 崇寧重寶 (Chong Ning Zhong Bao)?

 

We’ve got a winner! It is a Zhong Bao