Some important information

Hello, I know that some of you have herd of my research project but for those who have not
My name is Brandon Spiegel and I am a junior attending (...) high school. I have been studying coins for the past four years but now I want to take it to the next level by partaking in a course called TPSP which stands for Texas Performance Standards Project course. This course is a high school version to a college thesis that requires a final product. My goal for this course is to bring my passion for numismatics into a business setting by helping other people start their own collections


My final product is going to be a starter set that is going to have all of the coins, supplies, and knowledge that any new coin collector will need to start a coin collection.


To get to the core of the matter

I have a list of general rules of thumbs for new collectors that is going to be included in a pocket sized booklet that will be in the set that is being made to help new collectors when purchasing coins, and I would greatly appreciate your opinions about the rules of thumbs as presented below. The goal for these rules of thumbs is to give coin collectors basic information about the coin market and to help them not get ripped off.

I would like to note that more in depth information such as tell tale signs of a counterfeit coin, mint mark identification, coin identification, and the best and worst places to buy coins at is included later in the booklet.

Rules of thumb

1) Keep this booklet on hand, it has useful information that should help you when making decisions about purchasing coins.

2)Always do some research about the coin that you are planning to purchase before you go to make the purchase.

3) Always have a general idea of what you would like to purchase before going to to a coin show, but keep in mind that you might not end up purchasing what you originally planned to purchase so, have a list with multiple things on it, and always keep your mind open.

4) If an offer is too good to be true, it probably is because coin dealers sell coins to make a profit.

5) Make sure that the person that you are purchasing coins from does not make you feel uneasy about purchasing a coin from them.

6) Always deal with nice dealers, if a dealer is not willing to give you their time, then your time is not worth their time.

7) If in person, analyze the coin that you are planning to purchase before making a decision, most especially with the magnifier.

8)Always look for a better price when purchasing coins, most especially if you are at a coin show.

9) If online, assume that there is a chance that you may not obtain the coin depicted unless there is only one coin being offered.

10) When purchasing coins always stick to the main four third party grading services PCGS,NGC,ICG,ANACS

11)do not buy silver eagles or any sort of other modern silver round (such as the silver koala or the kookaburra) in a third party grading holder because these coins are going to me in Mint state 69-MS70 coins without the holder.

12) If you are going to pay more than $225 for a coin, make sure it is in a third party grading holder

13) Do not get a coin professionally graded unless it is worth at least $30 because the fees to get a coin graded and authenticated will outweigh the increased value that is attributed to the coin that comes about when a coin is professionally graded.

14) The fewer number of coins minted, the higher value for the coins minted of that year.

15)NEVER CLEAN COINS!Cleaning coins is strongly not advised because collectors and dealers of coins want coins that have the most original surfaces possible, and cleaning a coin takes away that natural surface. Keep in mind that a cleaned coin is considered a damaged coin and when making a purchase of a cleaned coin make sure that you are getting it for less than the price guide value.(important note - a cleaned coin can be identified by a coin that is a lot more shiny than normal.

17)Most importantly - have fun collecting coins!


Also, I am currently trying to obtain images for this booklet and I would greatly appreciate it if I could use any images of pre 1800 US coins if y'all had any.

I do want to note that this booklet is going to be sold on amazon as a part of the starter set and I will most defiantly give you credit for the image if you let me use it, I would also like to note that there is no 100% chance that your image will or will not be used.

Thank you in advance, I hope that you have a good day

 

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Mostly yes but not all the time:

roll of 2009-P Jefferson Nickles at 39,840,000 mtg 85-90$ a roll BU

roll of 1968-S Jefferson Nickles at 10,343,510 mtg 7-10$ a roll BU

 

Yeah, most of this advice is pretty firmly in the right direction, especially if it's aimed at beginners. There are a few things that are a little off, but, overall, it's a good start. I have a few thoughts, which I'll post later on tonight.

 

Good point, thank you for the information. Do you feel that any adjustments need to be made to the other points?

Good point thank you for the information, do you feel that any other adjustments need to be made to the other points?

 

Regarding Item 3; I encourage new collectors to thing about what drew them to consider collecting coins. Was it the history, or perhaps a family link to a specific region or Country? What ever their interest may be will provide an important motivation to start and to continue to learn about coinage in general.

In my case an interest in history, specifically the Civil War period has given me many opportunities to learn and tie specific coins to people in my own community from that time period.



What was the purpose of this copper token? Was it real money? Why were such tokens produced? Who used them? Who was Wm. Jackson? Where was his Grocery store? What coinage did the US government produce during the Civil War?

Each person has interests that provide links to our currency, that link can sustain a collectors interest for a lifetime.

 

This makes no sense to me.. confused.

 

Great point! so do you feel that "Always have a general idea of why you like to collect coins along with a general list of coins that you may want to purchase before going to purchase coins, and always have an open mind because you never know when something will catch your attention" would be a better statement?

 

I am basically trying to get to the buy the book before you buy the coin idea and to not have an inexpensive coin graded by a third party grading service because of fees. I am stating this because the vast majority of modern bullion rounds are of high grade in a third party grading holder or not. Do you feel there is any way i should or alter or change this statement, to improve it?

 

A thought that might help:

Don't put an arbitrary figure of $225 as the limit for buying a raw coin. If the beginner wants to buy specific individual coins, they should be graded and slabbed. A fortune is being made by dealers passing off cleaned and polished coins as "brilliant uncirculated" -- many of them under $225.

Buying raw coins should wait until the collector learns the needed grading skills, and how to detect cleaned and altered coins, as well as counterfeits.

 

Brandon: I think that with very few exceptions, graded/slabbed bullion coins are a waste. (I'm not referring to Eagle proofs).

Others will vehemently disagree. You are the author of this book and will have to decide this point for yourself.

 

I think you are off to a good start on your project!

 

I will be glad to help. I will PM you.

 

Thank you so much for the advice! I greatly appreciate it, I noticed how you stated that raw coins should not be purchased until a persons skills have developed, I most definitely agree with this statement for many coins, do you feel that a betters tatement might be "Do not pay more for a coin in a third party grading holder than the grading fees are"? Also do you feel that I should mention dealers"junk" boxes which tend to have authentic coins. Do you feel that the statement " Always buy a coin in a third party grading holder if the coin at hand has been altered or damaged" Note- many dealers tend to have boxes of low quality coins where great coins can be found for a great price"

If this statement were to be said though, it would conflict with the modern silver round argument and would mean that coins such as mint state state quarters would be a good purchase, Furthermore I have found good coins for good prices in third party grading holders just to find out that they are fake. Im sorry I am a little bit confused at the moment Do you have any advice?

 

thank you =)

 

FYI, it's not always the best idea to post so much info on the internet. Just saying.

I really like your idea in principle, but there are so many different ways to collect coins that I don't think any one product like this can fulfill that purpose. You're going to want to narrow your focus and reign in your ambitions a bit! Just think about how there are US collectors, world collectors, and ancient collectors, and subgroups within those groups. How can any one group of coins of books or coins can satisfy all of them! What is a state quarter going to do for someone with a budding interest in ancients? Vice versa, what is a crusty Constantine bronze going to do for a budding modern US collector?

Not to dash your hopes, but there is an entire book out there that does this really really well, written by someone who's been dealing coins longer than you and I have been breathing (The Expert's Guide to Collecting & Investing in Rare Coins by Q. David Bowers).

Again... entire books are dedicated to authentication and identification.

Here's what I suggest. Rather than going point by point through your list (which is a great start, I agree), if I were you, I'd reduce the scope of the project from a product you'd be attempting to sell on Amazon to a nice introductory article with an annotated bibliography and maybe a poster presentation to go with it. I think you'll be better served with a less ambitious project done very well than a very ambitious project done less well. (Not that I'm saying you don't have the capability to do it well, just that it's immensely harder to do so, and I'm assuming you have other responsibilities.)

That said, if you want to try your hand at buying and selling coins and trying to make money, I think that would be a good learning experience.

 

I actually don't like this being included. It certainly applies to common run of the mill items and I get what you are trying to say, but it can give people the wrong impression. There are a lot of things where the best price doesn't mean you got the best deal, often times those coins are priced lower for a reason and if you are always just buying the cheapest one offered that is a fast way to end up with a low end collection. That doesn't apply to everything but learning where it does is certainly part of the learning process.

 

Brandon,

It's late and there's a lot more that could be said, but a few things that come to mind (my apologies for skipping around)....

#12 and #13 contradict each other imo, and this is aside from the fact both are of questionable usefulness. Even if staying only in US coins, there is no magic number where if priced at or above, any coin must be graded, and the idea that any coin worth $30 or more should be submitted is a recipe for extreme waste, especially if by newer collectors. The point here, besides the questionable numbers, is that everything isn't so simple or cut and dry.

The idea that if a dealer isn't giving you their time, they're not worth yours may sound fine and reasonable, but is a tad vague. The fact is that there are plenty of people out there who think nothing of expecting a dealer to cater to their whims, perhaps for hours on end or allowing them to dig unsupervised through inventory, and not spend a cent unless they happen to find the almighty score. It all comes down to what is reasonable, and unfortunately, for every unreasonable dealer there are many, many more unreasonable collectors, each thinking the other one is the bad guy. It may mean something different to different people, but following the golden rule is, imo, solid advice. Put yourself in the dealer's shoes, then set expectations and act accordingly.

Pressing people to rely on TPGs may be somewhat useful early on, at least when compared to blindly buying raw, but it is not solve-all advice. One can still, and quite easily, buy only graded material and still end up with a collection full over overpriced dreck. Contrary to what many seem to think here, one of the smartest immediate and long-term moves a new collector can make is to find either a knowledgeable collector mentor, or dealer who is willing to work with them. A solid dealer-collector relationship, even if it costs more than the "but I can get it on ebay for...." crap, can pay great dividends in the long run, and should not be overlooked.

Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to tailor generic advice to fit everyone's wants or needs in some small booklet. A few lines on counterfeit identification isn't going to really help anyone avoid them, or at least any better than the most obvious. Likewise, a few photos of graded coin isn't going to help anyone make solid and wise purchasing choices. It's just not that simple. Kudos for the effort, but there isn't any easy "do it yourself" guide that can be written that will allow for one to skip over the necessary steps of learning.

 

@brandon spiegel

I think you should remove the name of the high school you attend because it leaves you open to attack/burglary from thieves in your area. If the "Edit" function has already lapsed from your original post, then use the "Report" function to ask one of the mods to delete the school name.

Chris

 

@cpm9ball - Done. Thanks to those who reported the post.

 

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