Sol Numismatik auction

If you are bidding in this auction, as I am, you may not be aware but most of the coins have been re-patinated. Notice all the orange desert patinas. If I win any, they will go into acetone soaks.

https://www.biddr.com/auctions/solnumismatik/browse?a=4252

here are some screenshots--

 

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Indeed, 'tis true. Same with their previous auction last month. I won 4 Levantine bronzes in that auction -- all 4 were "orangey". I factored that into my bidding though, and am content with the quartet in terms of bang-for-the-buck.

 

It would not be a problem if they put it in the description; but this is deceptive and I am grumpy and into my cups.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us... much appreciated!

 

Thanks. I did notice this. But I continue to use them and like them as I sometimes get what I think is a bargain, and their b.p. and shipping costs are more reasonable than most. Point taken though - should be mentioned in the description.

 

Rex Auction 3 on biddr.com was far worse:
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/rexnumis/browse?a=4035
at least they mentioned that they were "painted" or artificial patina". The painted ones were really bad, short of mechanical removal I don't think there is any way to remove the fake finish. These are so bad some look like a painters palette.

 

Paint should come off with acetone.

 

I'm curious to know what happened if anyone has won and then used acetone on the coins from Sol.

I haven't bought any from them but I've noticed Sol for selling remarkable numbers of rare Roman/Byzantine AE4/nummi types that I collect. (E.g., the Zeno's Victory-dragging-captive, Justinian's VOT XIII & XIIII.)

I've seen several of them later slabbed by NGC. None of those specimens mentioned the artificial patina -- which I had wondered about.

I think NGC does make a note if they believe the earthen soil is applied. Not sure if they're perfect at detecting it, but I would expect they see it all the time and can usually tell.

I wonder if some of their coins are original patina, but others are applied?

"Applied desert patina" doesn't bother me much, but I do want to know whether it was added or "as found." The thing that made me question their listings was that it looked too uniform. Even if these are recent metal detector finds from Syria, there should be more variation in the colors, both "externally" (from coin to coin) and "internally" (there tend to be other colors, like green, brown, and blue layers between the orange soil and the black surface).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are pretty much "as found."

 

I won 5 that will be getting bathed in acetone. Notice on the first coin (LIBERATOR ORBIS) the "patina" is actually cracked a bit and flaking off in spots.

 

Oh yeah, definitely see that. It also has the look of a coin that became a bit rough/porous after cleaning, and had the makeup or clay applied after. (My main worry from these is always whether they're pitted underneath.)

Nos. 3 & 4 to me look (potentially) a bit more realistic, so I'm very curious how those ones turn out.

(Looks the brighter green stuff underneath the orange -- oxidation or corrosion products I guess -- that I see on desert coins. I feel like real ones can have almost a rainbow of different microscopic patina layers, sometimes quite vivid... at least I think the ones I'm thinking of were real!)

 

I am sure the LIBERATOR is a mess underneath, that is why he applied such a thick layer of goop. I am hoping that I will be able to fix it up some; but will not know until I clean it up.

 

* * * Warning: This post may contain subliminal messaging. * * *

Congrats on the 5! Especially the two of Tancred. I was 'watching' both of those and planned to Live Bid, but got detained with a house project and missed their hammer times. However... I'm glad they went to you. I'll be eager to see them post-Acetone. (And also to see if one might appear in your store.)

 

I already have a Tancred CCS 4a in pretty good condition, so the other might pop up for sale; it depends on what it looks like in hand.


current example



Crusader States, Antioch (Principality). Tancred, as Regent (1101-1112) Æ Follis (3.43g, 21mm, 6h). ⧾ KE BOHΘH TΩ ΔOVΛOΩ TANKPI, bust of Tancred facing, wearing turban and holding sword / Cross pommetée, fleuronnée at base; in quarters, IC-XC across upper quarters, NI-KA across lower quarters. Metcalf, Crusades 1995, 63-70; Malloy, Coins of the Crusader States 4a.



new example

 

warning...disturbing image

 

Ouch! Yikes! And...
!

Thanks for sharing the results. I haven't attempted that with mine -- yet.

 

Ouch. What now? Could manual cleaning remove crud from the fields? Do you add a bit of artificial patina to cover the bare metal high points/corrosion?

 

I see this patina on lots of group lots these days - are they all phony? I had assumed that the coins from the sands of Syria as a result of the war over there - the same way that coins from the area in and around Serbia seemed to come over here during the war 30 or so years ago. Viva la guerre!

I wonder if: (1) this is a new type of patina that was just discovered (2) all of the coins with this color patina are phony - not that it matters - I have noticed that some dealers seem to have a standard color on many of their bronzes. This is just fine with me - if it is done well, phony patina looks quite nice. If it is just paint slopped on then not so good.

 

I cleaned a bit more and used Jax to cover the bare metal. It's all over but the crying. It's a shame as it is not in RIC; though quite a few examples are known.



Constantine I
circa A.D. 315
19mm 2.5g
IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; laureate, draped and cuirassed and cuirassed bust right.
LIBERATOR ORBIS; Emperor galloping r. over lion, r. hand raised.
In ex. R✶P
RIC VII Rome —

Desert patinas do exist, here is an example--



People have been gluing these patinas on for years. Salem from Athena Numismatics has been doing this for at least 20 years.

 

Well it's still a rare piece. I wonder what the find patina looked like. I should be receiving from that auction next week. None with applied patina and all Greek.

 

That's disturbing indeed. How did the other coins turn out? My guess would be that the first and last coins have sand glued to them, the middle three look fine.

If you're unhappy with the LIBERATOR ORBIS coin, I'd contact the seller and ask for either a return or a discount.