Siscian sombreros

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Victor_Clark, May 2, 2019.

  1. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Below is a typical (for the bust type) example of a Constantine I with VICTORIAE LAETAE PRINC PERP reverse from Siscia

    53b2.jpg



    and here are some unofficial VLPP's copying this coin from an engraver with remarkably consistent style. Note that even the obverse busts are very similar.



    17mm 2.6gm

    barb59.JPG

    17mm 3.1gm

    Barb69.JPG

    15x17mm 2.1gm

    Barb93.JPG


    16x17mm 2.4gm


    Barb114.JPG



    my page with more examples than you want to see--
    http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/barb2/
     
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  3. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    I haven't read much about "barbarous" coinage and look forward to reading your page more in depth. Very interesting subject.
     
  4. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    I update it as I get coins. Besides adding a few VLPP's, I also recently added this Julian II.

    Arles_SECVRITAS_Julian.JPG
     
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  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Fascinating coins @Victor_Clark ! I am wondering about the reasons for these issues, was it primarily to address a shortage of small change coins? It would seem that Constantine struck so many coins that this would not be necessary?
     
  6. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    The reason that most unofficial coinage was struck was due to monetary reforms. Another reason was that after the defeat of a rival, any coinage the loser had circulating was no longer good...when Licinius lost to Constantine all the IOVI coinage tariffed at half a nummus had to be replaced quickly; same as when Magnentius lost, you could not use his coinage.

    There are some laws recorded in the Theodosian Code that talk about coins that were removed from circulation and how some people still tried to use them.

    "Emperor Constantius Augustus and Julian Caesar to Rufinus, Praetorian Prefect.
    If any person should be detected in melting down money or in transporting it to different regions for the purpose of selling, he shall undergo the sentence for sacrilege and shall suffer capital punishment." (Theodosian Code 9:23:1)

    "Finally, it is our pleasure that, if any coin except that which continues in public use, should perchance be found in the possession of any merchant, it shall be vindicated to the owner of the fisc, together with all the property of the offender. If perchance ships should come to any provinces with merchandise, everything shall be sold with the customary freedom except the coins that are usually called majorinas or common centenionals or other moneys which are known to be forbidden." (Theodosian Code 9:23:3)


    some dates for epidemic minting of unofficial coins

    A.D. 318 -330

    monetary reform of Constantine--new VLPP have circa 4% silver

    circa 335 - between 342 to 348

    in 335 A.D., the number of nummi to a pound was raised to 192

    A.D. 348

    introduction of the maiorina

    A.D. 350

    usurpation of Magnentius

    A.D. 354

    after the fall of Magnentius, the maiorinae was replaced by the half maiorinae
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  7. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I am no expert and have studied this period very little but the question of barbarous that bothers me most is the large body of coins I am not comfortable deciding if they are official (on a bad day) or barbarous (by skilled workers).

    For example:
    I see the above as obviously unofficial but what about the one below?
    rx7370bb2171.jpg

    Some styles (Magnentius!) are worse than others.
     
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  9. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Deciding on whether a coin is official or unofficial is sometimes arbitrary and often based on a "gut" feeling. Pierre Bastien wrote that some of these coins probably came from “well organized work-shops.” It appears that mint workers may have been able to "borrow" official reverse dies and use them in their workshops. So it seems almost certain that sometimes you would not be able to tell unofficial from official. These are what I would call counterfeits though-- meant to deceive, while coins like the unofficial VLPP's that I posted above were never meant to fool people.

    The unofficial VLPP below would have fooled people unless they really scrutinized it or happened to be familiar with Siscian VLPP's. The size and weight are even in the average range at 18x19mm and 3.1gm.

    Barb1.jpeg
     
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  10. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    Cool coins Victor, I don't have a Siscian sombrero but do have 1 from Trier.
    IMG_5281.JPG IMG_5280.JPG

    This Magnentius has always been a fave of mine for the Obverse, looks like Data from Star Trek.
    IMG_5282.JPG IMG_5283.JPG
     
  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What an interesting group, @Victor_Clark! I think I'd enjoy collecting unofficial late Roman coins.
     
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  12. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Coming late to the party, but here are some more of these nice 'barbarous imitations'.

    2934 vlpp imi.jpg
    2932 B ct.jpg
    2926 B ct.jpg
    2919 bis 555.jpg
    2918 RB ct.jpg
    2915 B kl.jpg

    2916 B Vict laetae.jpg
     
  13. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    As for the border between sloppy official coins and unofficial ones, the lettering is a giveaway. A Roman mintmaster would never allow a coin that may be read like OVVVOVVVV (Off with his head! his boss would shout), whereas a faker would be happy to honor the great King Isiusiisiuisii.
     
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