What is the most valued single silver coin today excluding rarity. I think I read somewhere that all new coins by the U.S. Mints do not have silver composits except for maybe the actual silver proof coins. Dave
Not sure what you mean by that. If you exclude the rarity factor all you have left is the intrinsic value of the silver content. Is that what you mean ?
Based on that you can get into a discussion how you define the term coin. There are many mints that issue what they call coins that have 1 kilo or more of pure silver. But rather obviously they are not meant to be carried around or spent. So the largest silver coin I can think of that was meant to circulate would be the Panama 20 Balboa - 4.2 ozs of silver.
If you are interested in buying silver, you might as well just go for bullion bars. That way you dont have to pay a lot for something just because of its rarity.
Great Idea Starwarsfreak. But I think if I want to invest in silver, coins would be a better resell value. Mojavedave
Mojavedave, In general, many Silver coins are not always a better investment than Silver as they seldom rise very much in value when the price of Silver goes up! Sure, their' Silver content can increase in value and actually be worth more than the collectible value of the coin itself! For Example: Let's say you purchased a common 1899-O Morgan Silver Dollar in AU condition for $20 today, Silver is at $11.49 an ounce and the Silver Dollar currently has around $8.89 worth of Silver in it. Now lets say that Silver goes to $60 an ounce by December. You check out all of the Price Guides for the value of your 1899-O Morgan Silver Dollar but they now say that it is worth only $25 while the Silver in the coin is now worth $40.41 ... You can opt to take the $25 for the coin or sell it for it's Silver value and opting for the latter, you have made $20.41 on the coin. Now, if you had purchased an Engelhard one ounce Silver bar today instead of the Silver Dollar at a cost of $13.00 and sold it when Silver hit $60 an ounce, then you would have made $47 ... However, Engelhard one ounce Silver Bars almost always retail higher than Silver itself, so you could probably sell it for $62 to $63 which actually makes your profit $49 to $50 ... Frank
If you are only interested in the value of the silver, why buy coins? The only reason to buy collectable coins (as an investment) is to hope their value (as coins) increases more than just the value of their metal content. Silver ingots and rounds are just as easy to buy and sell, and there is no difference in grading or dates, as with coins.
This is highly unlikely to happen. Any Morgan scarce enough to sell for $20 in AU condition will never sell for half of melt value. Collectors are too knowledgeable to let that happen. People like me will be selling their other possessions to get enough money to buy every one of them. Mojavedave, you are on the right track but don't expect it to be easy. My interest in coins is similar to yours. It takes some patience and searching, because the collectors market is pretty efficient, but occasionally you can obtain coins that are fairly close to melt value and sometimes slightly under melt value that have either commanded a significant numismatic premium to the bullion value in the past, or may do so in the future. So if you buy right, the worst you should do is track the results of bullion, but there is a chance, but by no means a guarantee, that you will do better. But one thing I've learned from this forum is that 95% of the people here know much more than I do about coins 95% of the time, so I have to search for the other 5% of situations where I think I have an advantage. When you find such a situation, you have to be willing to trust your instinct, research and knowledge to buy quickly, because the bargains don't last long. But this implies that you are correct in your evaluation in the first place. If this sounds difficult and complicated, that's only because it is. But I think it's more fun than buying a silver bar.
If you are thinking that buying silver in bulk is cheaper, I disagree. Mints generally have a tendency to make them scarce, so that it will raise it's value. I believe the world's largest silver coin currrently is Russia's 2003 - "The Deeds of Peter I" 3 kilo silver coin. http://www.cbr.ru/eng/bank-notes_coins/Base_of_memorable_coins/coins.asp?cat_num=5119-0002 With a mintage of just 300, let's not ask how expensive that coin is.
Cloudsweeper, The point I was trying to make, is the fact that a coin's value based on collectibility and demand, does not always rise with the rise of Silver prices and that in many cases, Silver is a better investment! Just go back and look through the Coin Dealer's Bid (Grey) Sheets for the past several years to now and you will see what I mean. Sure, Collectors are too knowledgeable to sell their' coins for half of melt value but what about the folks that are not as knowledgeable!? Even if Silver was to rise to $400 an ounce and the Bid Sheet shows that the coin is only worth $40, don't you think that some Dealers will try to get the coin at that price? Well I know that there are some that will! Frank
I'll vote with GDJMSP that the 1970s series of 4.2 ounce 20 Balboas were the largest real, honest to goodness, coins minted in silver. Of course, I'm sure many will disagree with my theory that NCLT like the Russian 200 rubles, the 1 kilo gold Austrian Philhamonic lotsa Euros, and even the US Silver/Gold Eagles, are nothing but government sponsored bullion rounds.
maybe so, but what are you going to do? The reason why Silver is so popular with coins is not just the inherent bullion value or mining politics, but it makes a nearly perfect coin. No other metal engraves as nicely as silver, wears as charmingly as silver, and has that nice warm silver feel and color. Coins, as works of art, are exquisit silver peices. The Mints love to design and make Silver coin and the public adores them. But you can't circulate a .9 ounce silver dollar. And I doubt that the governments are willing to mint them as circulating $50.00 peices, which might be the margin of security from the rising sivler value that would be needed to maintain the coins in circulation. So were left with ASE's instead. I would hardly think of them as government spounsored bullion. I believe the government has little practicle interest haing silver available to the public. I don't think the government would be to happy if IBM ordered a half ton of ASE's for manufacture of computer processors. I believe that the mint takes the ASE's amd the AGE's as a serious coin. Ruben
Frank, The point I was trying to make is in the few situations where it is possible to obtain coins at prices close to bullion value, they are superior to plain bullion investments. It is unlikely that they will ever be worth less than bullion value, and under certain conditions may be worth more. For example, there have been times when $20 gold liberties in VF condition have sold for close to bullion value, and times when they have sold for almost twice bullion value. To me, that makes them a better investment at close to bullion value than a regular AGE [not the super high grades or scarce dates]. Bullion will always be worth bullion value. I was speaking to collectors, and not to folks with no knowledge of coin values, presuming they are not the regular readers in this forum. So I doubt very much that it is much of a risk to think that the readers here will sell coins with $400 worth of bullion in them for $40. Your observation is correct in situations where a person is purchasing coins a significant markups to bullion value because of condition or rarity, but that is really a numismatic purchase, not an investment. Nobody knows for sure whether the premium will expand or contract over time. That is why I confine my purchases to coins with zero-to-modest markups over bullion value. Last year, I was able to purchase 100 mercury dimes with clear dates for $35, and several ASEs for $5. These are examples of the types of bargains that are out there, but not common. I fully realize that my form of "collecting" would probably be unsatisfying for most of the people here, who are infinitely more informed about numismatics than I am. But I'm pretty satisfied with my approach which I describe as 75% investor and 25% collector. It's pretty low risk.
There is a reason that the various countries of the world issue bullion coins as opposed to bars of bullion for sale to the public. Quite simply it's to help thwart counterfeiting. It's been that way for centuries. Think about it, how hard would it be to make a fake bar of gold where the only indentifying mark is a company's hallmark ? That's pretty simple, the bar is totally smooth except for one small mark. With a coin, there is an intricate design on both sides and the edge. Every coin, of a given denomiantion, is of the same weight and the same size. So that even the average person can identify a genuine example. And you have the country that issues the coin to stand behind it and guarantee its metal content. And coins are easily portable, storable and stackable in both small and large quantities. Imagine - a 1 kilo bar of gold or silver or 1 kilo of silver or gold coins - which is easier to dispose of a portion ? Coins have many advantages over precious metal in bullion form.
There is a constant discusion every day on TV or on these forums for the prices of Gold, Silver, Platinum, Copper, etc. Now I hear so much all the time what a great investment this or that metal is. OK so I take a Silver 1 Oz bar to a coin show just for the fun of seeing this so called value. I approach several dealers and pretend I want to sell it. They naturally either say I don't want it or I can only give you the going price of Silver minus about 40%. So if I recently bought it for $10 an ounce I would now olnly get about $6 for the same bar. Now I try a few local jewelry stores and am told we don't buy raw Silver or if they do it to is at approximate 30 to 40% loss of what I paid for it. I then try places that advertise they make thier own jewelry and ask the same question, how much? Again, about 40% less than market price of Silver. The reason is simple. Everyone has to make a profit so if they bought it from me for what I paid for it, they would not be making a profit. Now the worst part is if I was really trying to sell that Silver Bar I would have to add the cost of my time, gas for my car, all other transportation fees to go to places to sell it. With the price of gasoline for my car being what it is today, I think I would have to sell one ounce of Silver for about $100 just to come out even. With coins it is basically the same. In other words regardless of it is a coin or bullion, the value is only what you can sell it for, not what you buy it for.
I would like to know what jewelry dealer gets silver bullion at a 40% discount? I would also like to know who that guys supplier is. For a 40% discount i will buy in bulk.
I think you all make some good points, and now you have my head spinning. I think maybe the best idea is to hedge the bet by buying both bullion and coins. So where do you buy bullion at cost or a resonable price ?
