Shame about the holes....

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ancient Aussie, Aug 28, 2021.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    The point with doing it on small coins is so you won't lose them, and can carry them on a string or sew them to a garment. Or use them in jewelry, of course. Which is why so many smaller coins got holed.

    Or, if you're an eccentric collector, you could always wear them on a hat... :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    When am I not listening to the Beatles? :)
     
  4. Muzyck

    Muzyck I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a biscuit today.

    This one has a severe wound though it is not ancient.

    China Sinkiang 5 Miscal obv holed.jpg China Sinkiang 5 Miscal rev holed.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  5. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

     
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  6. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    That's a great coin, I love architectural types! The perspective view is really cool. It would be fascinating to match this up with any graphical reconstructions done. I have two relevant coins.

    This one, I was able to buy for the price of a cheap lunch due to the square nail hole:
    MnAciliusGlabrioCr442-1a.JPG
    And this one of Caracalla from Alexandria, Troas that is my only 3D or perspective view of a temple:
    CaracallaAlexandriaTroasSngCop134v.JPG
     
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Holey Moley

    upload_2021-8-29_9-53-32.png
    RImp Spain Lepida-Clesa Lepidus 44-36BCE C Balbus L Porcius Colonia Victrix Ivlia Lepida Victory - Bull holed RPI 262 plate 19


    upload_2021-8-29_9-54-13.png
    China ANCIENT Cowrie - Shang Dynasty
    BONE 2 holes for clothing or funeral bier 20mm Hartill 1-2v Coole 51-66


    upload_2021-8-29_9-55-28.png
    China
    Shang Dynasty 1766-1154 BCE or Zhou Dynasty Ghost Face Ant Nose 1.65g Hartill 1.4
     
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  8. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Germanic (Gothic ?) tribes

    BB70D79E-5F91-4FC9-8527-7C67857D89DE.jpeg
     
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  9. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    I'm impressed that people everywhere used to make holes in coins! No sense for beauty!!

    Well, this next one is my worst:arghh:. Hadn't shared it before because it is so bad and I was rather ashamed of it, but since we have known each other for quite a while, I am ready now to share it.
    I know, it is horrible and not something one should share; every time I look at it I get very, very sad; anyway, it is what it is...:

    It is one of the earliest to show Octavian's new title and the new name by which he would become known. After his death, all future emperors would take this title as a sovereign right.

    AR Cistophorus,
    Mysia, Pergamum, 27 - 26 BC
    26 x 27mm, 10.379 g
    RIC I 492; RIC I (2nd edition) 527; Sutherland group II; RSC 31; RPC I 2204;
    Ob.: IMP • CAESAR bare head right
    Rev.: AVGVSTVS sphinx with raised wings, seated to right on ground line

    upload_2021-8-29_16-1-7.png upload_2021-8-29_16-1-18.png
     
  10. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    That is one fantastic coin, in my eye's the hole doesn't detract from it's beauty one little bit...but I think the person wearing it around there neck might have been unfortunate.
     
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  11. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

  12. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks, love that Troas temple, I need one.
     
  13. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    Love those ant-nose type soooo old.
     
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  14. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    This hole has always confused me. Looks like it was compressed from either side leaving a thin layer of metal.

    tavion.jpg
    Galatia, Tavion. Æ27 Zeus/bull
    GALATIA, Tavion. Circa Mid-1st Century AD. Æ 27mm (13.20 gm). TPO-KMWN, Zeus seated facing, holding sceptre in right hand / [SEBASTH]NWN (retrograde), bull standing left. RPC I 3568 (corr.); SNG France 2646; SNG Copenhagen -; BMC Galatia pg. 24, 3-4; SNG von Aulock - Laffaille -. Rare.

    Tavion was the capital of the Trokmoi (the principal tribe of eastern Galatia), named as the issuers of this coinage in the obverse legend.
     
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  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    You should sell that coin to someone who would appreciate it. Holes have many reasons. I recall a movie plot (anyone know the movie) where two men settle a bet with the winner getting a coin that was nailed to a post in some bar. When the purpose was to fix a coin to something, nails work. I have a bit of preference for holes that still retain something. Would I prefer the coin with no hole? Usually yes but not for the amount of market discount the holes provide.

    These sestertii of Gordian III and Trebonianus Gallus were nailed , not drilled. We can never know if they took part in a bet or what.
    ro0680bb2192.jpg ro1440bb1269.jpg

    My great regret on the Augustus below is that the hammer struck one time too often ruining the portrait when the peen hit coin rather than just the iron nail. Nail if you must but, please, know when to stop.
    rb0850bb1685.jpg


    Drilled holes can also be found with inclusions. This is a Titus and Domitian from Stobei. What the wire attached to would be nice to know. The coin would sell for more without the hole but the wire restores a bit of the loss (not all!). I regret the loss of the left side legend more than the presence of the hole. Those who only collect mint state coins don't care since either being fixed would leave an old worn out coin not worthy of consideration.
    pb0160fd0149.jpg
    This type sold in CNG 490 (April 2021) for $110 (plus fluff) on $100 estimate where it was provenanced "From the Peter J. Merani Collection, purchased from Harlan J. Berk. Ex Classical Numismatic Group 54 (14 June 2000). lot 1073." where it realized $260 (+only 10% then) on $300 estimate. I'm sorry I missed it but recent ridiculous realizations have made me skip most 'name brand' sales. Someone got a deal; someone took a bath. I paid Andy Singer $100 for my lesser coin with a hole in 2019 which strikes me as reasonably in line with the 2000 sale but makes me a fool compared to 2021. I guess what I have is a worn out $50 coin made worth $10 due to a hole leaving me having paid $90 for the piece of wire. Go figure!!! I'll not know what it would bring when I'm gone. I like the wire.
     
  16. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    An almost perfect one sold in Nomos Auction 5 for about CHF 75,000!
    A nice coin, that I, for one, would be happy to own.
     
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  17. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Thanks for the heads-up @Ancient Aussie and @PeteB your kind comments make me feel a bit better about it.

    Absolutely, the person who wore it and who most probably also holed it, must have been unfortunate for having done this to the coin.... His pain is self-inflicted!
     
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  18. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I whopping big hole in this one. I can forgive it as it is from a scarcer eastern sub-series of Septimius Severus.

    Obv:– L SEP SEVERVS PER AVG PIV IMP XI PAR P M, laureate head right
    Rev:– SALVTI AVGG, Salus seated left feeding snake coiled around altar
    Eastern mint. A.D. 198
    Reference:– BMCRE page 281 Note, citing RD page 102. RIC 497b corr.

    [​IMG]

    From the same scarce issues i have two other coins with different reverse dies all from the same obverse die.

    Rev:– AR AD [T]R P VI COS II P P, Victory walking left, holding wreath in right hand, palm in left
    Reference:– BMCRE page 280 *, citing RD page 105. RIC 494a corr.

    [​IMG]

    Rev:– AR AD TR P VI / COS II P P, Two captives seated back to back at the foot of a trophy
    Reference:– BMCRE page 280 Sword, citing RD page 105. RIC 494b corr.
    Slightly double struck on the reverse

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    Wonderful new addition @Ancient Aussie ! I like it with or without the holes. I think the single point perspective makes it an extra cool architecture type.

    Much to my surprise I don’t have a coin with a jewelry hole in it. Does an intentional hole count?
    07BE106F-A51A-43A6-93EF-3F07AD5B82BC.jpeg
     
  20. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    Ptolemaic AR drachma of Ptolemy V

    upload_2021-8-31_1-56-54.png

    Size: 16x18 mm
    Weight: 3.09 g
    Axis: 0
    Obv: Ptolemy IV (as Dionysus) head facing right, ivy leaves in hair, wearing diadem and scaly aegis tied by snakes. Dotted border.
    Rev: Εagle on thunderbolt facing left, wings closed. In left legend: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ; in right legend: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ. Dotted border.
    Reference: Svoronos 1786, pl xli, 13 [2 listed]; SNG Copenhagen Suppl 1321-1322.
    Appearance: Obv holed at 5:00 position.

    Notes: In the second century BCE small silver denominations were introduced as a regular part of the Cypriote currency system. This was a notable innovation: the Ptolemies had rarely struck silver fractions before, and in Egypt bronze coins continued to serve as the only form of small change. The inauguration of the Cypriote silver minors is dated by Lorber* to the reign of Ptolemy V and almost certainly to the late 190s when production of dated tetradrachms resumed at Salamis and Citium.

    Svoronos recognized the features of Ptolemy V in this series. Others, including RS Poole (1883, p l) and RA Hazzard (1998, pp 29-30), have seen a cryptic portrait of Ptolemy IV as Dionysus and have observed that the types may reflect Philopator's well-documented identification with that god. A portrait of Ptolemy Philopator is not inconsistent with an attribution to Ptolemy V, who struck commemorative portrait coins honoring both of his parents.

    * private communication

    - Broucheion
     
  21. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    When fourrés were discovered they were often marked as counterfeit by pounding a hole through them. I suspect that, above in this thread, coins of @Ryro , @cmezner , @ominus1 , @Jay GT4 , @Orange Julius , @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix , and @dougsmit were holed for this reason.

    I have two Greek coins that were holed because they were exposed as a counterfeits.
    SG1602ThraceCherronesosImit01176.jpg

    Plated, holed, imitation. 13 mm. 1.71 grams.
    Cherronesos, Thrace
    Fine style, but an obvious fourree, with copper showing all the way through the hole, around it, and elsewhere.
    The piercing was to mark it as a counterfeit.
    Obverse: Forepart of lion right, looking back, paws raised.
    Reverse: reverse in four quadrants, one with grape cluster, opposite one with pellet (It could be rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise)
    References for the prototype: Sear Greek I, 1602-1606 var. SAN XVII#1, cover coin type. SNG Copenhagen 824-843 var. Says "480-350 BC."


    SG3919MysiaParionImit01175.jpeg

    Fourré hemidrachm with much silver, but much copper showing.
    13 mm. 1.65 grams. A big hole.
    Gorgonion facing, tongue out
    /bull standing left, looking back. Pi A above, P I below.
    Again we see piercing, which indicates that this was discovered to be false in ancient times and purposely defaced.
    Prototype: Sear Greek 3919-3922. SNG Copenhagen 257-266. Dated to about 350-300 BC.
    Parion is on the southern shores of the Propontis.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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