what is wrong with my thinking here: Look for SGS coins on Ebay that certainly are not of the grade they bare but still ok coins (for example modern commems that are almost all 67+), not older coins which may be cleaned or damaged. Bid on these coins at below the 67-68 price range and crack them out if you win. The thinking here is that the SGS holder diminishes value.
It is not true that being in a generic slab diminishes value. It is only true that being in a generic slab, people have a higher tendency of overpaying.
Buying a SGS coin for any reason only puts more money in there pockets, and I for one am not going to do that. When people learn more about grading coins and look at alot of coins they will be able to find that me-65 0r 67 they are looking for. Or at least that is the way it seems to me.
If you really like the coin and are confident in your grading skills, go ahead and bid on it. The problem is there are too many neophytes out there that see the ms70/pr70 and bid that puppy through the roof thinking that this is the coin they've been waiting for, this can foster an "auction fever" and realistic prices for these coins can't be easily realized.
Sgs I agree with Bruce. Buying sgs coin, even if you crack them out, still encourages the to slab more to sell to the uninformed. A lot af people are getting ripped by sgs, and they (sgs) don't need more help from us.
You would be just falling into SGS (Aboncom's) trap thinking that, "OK...so maybe this modern coin is not a 70 coin, but it has to be at least a 67, right?" Well, that is what some people thought where they submitted some SGS packaged coins to PCGS and guess what? None came back better than a 66!! Remember, when you take you OWN inventory and start packaging and marketing in your OWN plastic, all you are doing is "putting lipstick on a pig" in hopes of duping the unsuspecting. The thought of anybody putting any money into these people's hands will just encourage them to package more "70" coins and sell them to newbies.
I bought an SGS slabbed '79 S Morgan from Aboncom (before I knew better) that was "graded" at MS67 PL. I am too embarrassed to say how much I paid for it but lets just say it was in the low MS66 range. I got the coin in the mail and it was nowhere near MS67. However, it was a very, very nice MS64. It was blast white, no toning, and very frosty. Had I paid $50 for it I would have been very happy. Of course, as soon as I saw it I promptly returned it. The other problem with it is that it could have been cleaned/altered. I posted a pic here and someone was of the opinion that it was cleaned. Here is the url http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=13975 I would never buy an SGS coin again for two reasons: 1.) As previously stated, it puts money in these crooks hands 2.) You can't assume that because its slabbed an MS67 it must at least be a MS65 or even 64. I've seen slabbed MS67 coins that look like EF45. Fact is, these guys will put any coin in one of their slabs and call it a perfect coin. Also, they don't do any sort of authentication. You really don't know anything more about the coin than if it were raw. It could be fake, cleaned, or otherwise altered.
Welcome to the forum keh...now you have to tell 10 other collectors of your experience with SGS/Aboncom so they can pass the word too!
Actually, that's called being a dealer. It is no different to "slab" a coin into plastic, give it a grade, and sell it off with your own "guarantee" than it is to put it in cardboard, give it a grade, and write it in ink for your walk-in customers to see. Where the difference resides is not that this process is to dupe someone, but when the process is done for the purpose of duping someone. I am sure you would not state that a dealer who places a grade on the cardboard and sells it off as such is doing so to dupe someone. There must be proof of not only capability, but intent and motive. With SGS, we already have proof of capability and most definitely motive. It is the intent that must be proven in order to get them indicted. Grading is subjective. That makes intent hard to prove, although that proof is coming closer and closer to light. But to make a general statement that anybody that does as such is, in essence, trying to rip people off, is not proper logic. But, then again, when it comes to a field such as numismatics, paranoia is probably much healthier than liberal trust. I question even NGC, and especially PCGS slabbed coins, as I find many of the mint state coins in their slabs are over graded. Or perhaps I just have higher expectations when it comes to things like "fully struck", "fully original", and "perfect". In all fairness though, with regards specifically to SGS, SGS has tried to cover up the fact that the coin dealer known as Aboncom has vested interest in the grading company SGS. Yet, when approached and asked about the relationship, they flat out lie to their customers claiming that they are a "master distributor" of SGS. If Aboncom announced and made known that they were in fact directly related to the grading company SGS, then I would see no difference between them and brick and mortar dealers that also overgrade. Scum come in many flavors, and Aboncom/SGS is just one of them.
I agree with this paragraph 100%! If Aboncom came out and mentioned they own, owned, and/or have/had a vested interest in SGS, then the buyer would be informed. My beef with them is that their ads and marketing make it appear that their coins were indepentently graded and authenticated by a third party with no interest to either the buyer or seller...which is NOT the case with SGS and Aboncom. You are right, anybody can slab and grade. I even did it myself. What do you think of my MGS MS70 Bison 5c coin with "certificate of authenticity"?? Remember, the 4th staple is FREE on all of my graded 2x2's. How much would you pay for a MS70 grade? I am ready to receive submissions!
only to a point, I mean to tag a coin ms70 when there are obvious flaws would be objectively called fraud. I think I will steer clear of SGS coins.
I am really intrigued by that "fourth staple free" offer. I might really have to consider making MGS our slabber of choice. :goofer: This might be of interest also: http://www.ebaywiki.com/Articles/1000000000000257 (Not to start trouble, but...) Off topic: Nice avatar Mokanmike51! Is that the IHC HO Scale kit or is that another model? I forget what they called that ride. One of these days I will put together the ones I have stored away.
skywheel no it's not it is 450 dollar model, and I don' have one I am giong to try to copy it with the ICH model.
