Hi All... I've been reading up on Seated Liberty Quarters lately and recently purchased an 1859 proof that I was hoping a CT expert could help me with. According to Breen's Encyclopedia, the Type-2 Obv/Rev was introduced in 1859. However, in an effort to use up the existing Type-1 dies, both die varieties were used between 1859 and 1961...in a variety of combinations (including mules). Breen states that, in 1859, the majority of business strike quarters were Type1 (Obv and Rev). He also states that nearly all the Proof strikes (800) were Type2 (Obv and Rev). "Proofs with Type1 (Obv and Rev) are very rare". Additionally, Breen states that many of the 1859 proof strikes were unsold and later melted. I was hoping a CT expert could confirm/refute Breen's statements and verify that this is a Type1 (Obv and Rev) Proof strike. I don't have the coin "in hand", so these photos are all I have to go by for now. Thanks!
2 things that I cannot tell from the pictures 1. are vertical shield lines 5,6, and 7 touching the bottom of the bottom of the shield on the reverse? 2. Is the quar dol. recut? Edited wrote date and meant quar dol.
A little research indicates that the Type One obverse has the point of the shield to the right of the 1 in the date, while the Type Two has that point closer to exactly over the right side of the 1. The Type One reverse has closed claws and heavier arrowheads; the Type Two has open claws and more delicate arrowheads. By that reckoning, yours is Type One/Type One if I'm reading the pics correctly. Back me up on this.
1. The Reverse vertical shield lines are hard to tell from these pictures. Is that a Type diagnostic? I'm pretty sure the Reverse is Type1 due to the closed claws and large, nearly touching arrow heads. The eagle eye should be hollow, but it's hard to see through the toning...(I know a lot of people like toned coins...but I don't). 2. I don't know about the "quar dol.". It does look like something's going on there.
Per Briggs the type 1 has the incomplete horizontal lines on the reverse along with the 3 incomplete vertical lines, He make no mention of the open/closed claws
This is my source: https://books.google.com/books?id=x...epage&q=1859 quarter type one obverse&f=false The auction of the coin mentioned there: http://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-quar...4-3434.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 I was able to anecdotally confirm those pickups in individual auctions of coins mentioned as having one obverse/reverse or the other. Doesn't mean it's all correct, which is why I asked for backup; due diligence to my usual standard isn't satisfied by this little evidence.
Thanks...that's how I'm leaning. I'm confident on Reverse, but the Obverse toning has me questioning my eyes. I wasn't aware of the shield diag (thanks!). The Type1 Obverse is supposed to have a single hair ribbon and straight fingers. The Type2 has a double hair ribbon, curved fingers, and an enlongated index finger.
Per Briggs Obv1 Type 1 Small numerals of date 1.4 mm high sloping up left to right First three vertical lines above ribbon do touch lowest horizontal line starts are all sharp and show centrils. Thick base "1" in date, wide upright, short blunt serif Obv 2 small numerals 1.4 mm high irregular date sloping down from left to right. light die rust on liberty's chest, three heavy die scratches from tip of left rock towards star #1, Thin based 1 in date, wide upright, long thin serif
Excellent references...thanks so much! That's the only other Type1 Obv/Rev Proof I've seen. I'm sure there are others. I guess I'll have to put off retirement for a while longer.
I'm in awe...thanks so much! I'll have to check more closely once I get the coin in hand. Once I get it, I'll have to put it in my Rock Tumbler to clean it up!
I try to hew exclusively to spatial relationships and configuration in the attribution process. Things like letter strokes and apparent size are variable with the quality of the date punch, die hubbing and most importantly strike. I suspect the reason I discovered the facts referenced at Heritage which I did, are the result of similar thinking.
Breen is not the best reference for these coins anymore. If you continue with the series, join the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. If you can get a copy of Briggs, do it. Flynn has a new book out on Seated quarters. We don't have one yet but it gets good reviews.
