Safety Deposit Boxs are NOT safe

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by OldSilverDollar, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. xCoin-Hoarder'92x

    xCoin-Hoarder'92x Storm Tracker

    The movies lied to us all, you can't shove bundles of money in those I guess! :p
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  3. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    What the bankers’ eyes don’t see, their little minds won’t worry about. Banks provide a private area for SDB clients to open their boxes and take stuff in and out. Worst thing that would happen if they caught you with cash or gold in your SDB is they would tell you to take your goodies elsewhere.

  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

  5. BIC

    BIC New Member

    You can get "Valuable Personal Property" or floater insurance, which covers any kind of loss or damage, even if it's your fault (drop a coin in the meat grinder). But, it can get expensive. I've found it too expensive for coins & bullion. I suggest diversification. I have SDB at two different FDIC banks, a top quality home safe and other security measures. Quality is as important in safes as it is in coins.

    Update on the Beverly Hills story. A judge initially ruled FBI cannot access all the boxes at the facility with a general search warrant. On appeal, it was reversed saying FBI can access all the boxes. This was not a bank, but a private SDB facility that was allowing money laundering to go on.
    serafino and Kentucky like this.
  6. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    Update: I have since insured my collection stored in a SDB with Hugh Wood and it was very reasonable. They will also insure for an allowable amount that is at your residence or stansporting between your home and the bank. I feel much better now. Regards.
    ToughCOINS, MIGuy and serafino like this.
  7. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    I firmly believe that spreading the collection around into various SDB's and home safes is the most prudent way to protect the overall collection. So we are in agreement on that front.

    I also noticed you specifically stated you have your collection at two different FDIC insured banks SDB's. Just to be clear since you did mention it, FDIC insured is a completely moot designation in this case. FDIC insures deposits. It does not under any circumstance insure the contents of any SDB. I mention this because I wouldn't want anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand what FDIC is to think that they insure SDB's. Therefore, mentioning FDIC in your post can be misleading.
  8. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Good point that FDIC does not insure SDBs. In addition, they do not insure investments other than checking and savings accounts that are acquired or managed by a FDIC-insured bank. However, FDIC-insured banks have physical security requirements and procedures that are not required of SDB-only “banks”. In addition, most FDIC-insured banks are branches of a big corporations (Chase, BoA, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc.) with big legal staffs that can make sure any warrants are legit and the executors of such stay within the stated limits. SDB-only “banks” do not have any more security requirements than your Uncle Zeke’s garage and may be less secure. Even with a SDB in a FDIC-insured (aka Federal Reserve) bank, insurance is a good idea.

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  9. daniel a DiBiasio

    daniel a DiBiasio Well-Known Member

    Chase bank is in the process of phasing out sdb boxes.
  10. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    I would like to add that people in areas prone to getting hit with storms like hit Florida you may want to make sure you store your coins somewhere that wouldn't get flooded. The banks aren't going to run to the bank and move the safety deposit boxes to a safe location. You are responsible to make sure your stuff is safe. So, if you have your stash in area that can or has been flooded in the past you really need to think about what to do if a storm or flood is coming. Also keep in mind that waiting until the last minute to go get your coins out of a SDB might not be a smart move. You may find your bank locked up until after the storm. So, if the state tells you to leave, go get your stuff from the bank and take it with you. If you don't you could come back and find your coins sitting salt water.
  11. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter


    A sealed ammunition box of Gold coin weighs well over 200#!

    Gold weighs .7 pounds/cubic-inch!
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
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  12. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Well, my SDB box contents I estimate to be 25 lbs avoirdupois (i.e. regular pounds). That’s about 365 troy ounces (system used for gold). At current price of gold bullion, that’s over $600,000, and if it was in the form of early US gold coins, stellas, and PanPac $50s, it would be in the millions. I wish, I wish, I wish. Unfortunately, the contents of my box are cardboard, paper (not cash!), plastic, base metal, silver and a teensy bit of gold.

    If I had an ammo box with 200 lbs of gold, it would be my personal assistant watched by my 24-hour security force that would be writing this. :joyful:

    imrich likes this.
  13. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I believe you can see the humor in handling, and the problems transporting, inserting/removing the boxes of Pre-1933 U.S. Gold or Silver coin rolls from bank SDBs.

    The normal storages of boxes afore-mentioned are custom built stainless steel full height safes having many vertical shelves.

    A robotic X-Y-Z trans-portable extraction system is required for handling the boxes.

    Storage is contained in a above-grade hillside cave bunker.

    The "contents" of "banks" are readily moved/relocated, as experienced on more than one occasion without clients' notification, location protected by international criminals/attorneys.

    3 of my "suppliers" served time, and a MN bullion law was established, resulting in some prosecution, but the majority of the criminals are busier than ever, using the "system" to protect their ill-gotten gains.

    Some here may remember Hugh, who tried to warn people here before his investments were "taken", and I acquired some to support his legal efforts.

    Beware of firms promising much if you send them your "collection", after sending them a complete list of your valuables that they promise to sell. LOL
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
  14. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    Well one thing you aren't supposed to do is hide cash in the sdb. If the feds were allowed to search every box in a location and you have thousands in the box they probably would take it. And you should periodically check the box. My grandma though had one her whole life. She lived to be almost 101. She had it over 70 years. She was the only one who ever got into it until she died. She didn't keep anything valuable at home except the rings on her fingers. All her money was in the bank in her account.
  15. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    The general search warrant was granted in violation of the US Constitution. A search warrant must be limited to specific targets.

    That the FBI searched all SDBs, and seized what contents they chose does not free them of reprisals for having done so, as the judge who issued this warrant will ultimately be turned around. Still, those whose contents are provably born of illegal activities are unlikely to pursue their return, and the FBI and judge likely feel their gambit was worth it.

    The right decision / settlement in this case should be that the penalty against the FBI / judge for pursuing and issuing the blanket warrant more than offsets the benefits of having done so. In doing so, it would give pause to future efforts aimed at the same goal.
  16. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I'm sorry to say that there aren't any penalties to the judiciary for issuing blanket warrants for anything above a misdemeanor,

    A gross misdemeanor as having the wrong/expired plates/tabs on a vehicle automatically comes with a warrant, and statements to the effect of "tax evasion".

    In jurisdictions where Pro Se communications aren't allowed with prosecutors, the criminal/you, when hiring a $4000 attorney, will be told that you are required to plead guilty, or the warrant will be exercised, as you're guilty until proven innocent by nothing being found. LOL

    A guilty plea will automatically place you on a 1 year probation if you violate ANY State law, and warrant exercise.

    Based on personal experience!!
    serafino likes this.
  17. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    There's no worse penalty for a judge than to have one's decision reversed by a higher court for having exercised poor judgment.
    serafino likes this.
  18. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

  19. ewomack

    ewomack 魚の下着

    Every storage method has risks. Nothing will protect collections 100%. One just has to weigh the risks of the feasible options.

    For people who can't accommodate a home safe, a bank vault likely provides the most security, and fewer risks, than other options.

    Equally, a person could have the most secure home system imaginable and someone from their own family could rob them (I think this actually happened to someone on this forum some years ago).

    One has to look at one's own situation and resources and assess the least risky way to store valuables. Nothing ever has zero risk. Each method has tradeoffs.

    For those who can't tolerate any risk whatsoever of losing collectibles, they should probably explore other hobbies. Owning anything valuable comes with a greater than 0% chance of losing it.
    imrich and -jeffB like this.
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It means nothing to them. Most of them dont even follow a case once its left their court. The hacks that hand out egregious decisions that actually get reprimanded in high opinions are there from political reasons and are doing what they were put there to do. The fact that appeals have to happen which take months already means they accomplished what they set out to do.

    That doesn't mean every judge is like that, or that everything that was overturned is like that, but there are ones who just rubber stamp any request they agree with regardless of legality
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
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  21. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    As for the currency, yes, not acceptable.

    In the even of the death of the owner, the box is opened by the bank, in full view of a notary, usually 2 bank officers, and [possibly] the recipient of the proceeds.
    If there is any 'cash' meaning currency, not rolls of wheat cents, then it is deemed to be from 'unreported income', a 1099 is issued and the estate will have to report the income.

    Collectible coins are another story
    capthank likes this.
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