Safes vs banks

Yesterday had a letter to the editor in the local paper, seems an 80 year old lady had her money stolen out of the bank by a slick lawyer.

She got a call some time ago from a "collection agency" claiming she had an old credit card dept. She had no memory of such a dept. She only spoke to them once.

Seems that monday she checked her bank account ballance, it was ZERO, checking , savings EVERYTHING! A lawyer working for the "agency" had cleaned her out. Over $5,000. All from Social security, all saved by frugal living. All she had. The bank didn't give here a chance to question it either.

Makes the shyster coin and safe adds look legit.

 

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The Federal Govt. may seize any or all of your assets in bank accounts or safety deposit boxes. They do not need to notify you in advance. The bank , is also not under any obligation to notify that they are about to or have seized your assets. Buy a Good Safe. It's more likely the Government will take off with your treasures , and you will most probably be able to reach for your "lil friend" before a burglar can blow your safe. Safe and security systems.

 

That is kind of what I have been thinking, With all the problems. Seems having some in the bank may be ok to pay bills. And keep the rest where you can keep an eye on it. At least you can charge a burglar with a crime. My wife lost 2 years pay when the 401's from her ex husband went down.

I had a pair of great aunts. One spent her money on clothes for high school, her sister saved her's in the bank. Then the bank went bust in 1929. she had to wear her sisters old clothes. I heard about that every time money came up for 30 years.. wish we could hear them ribbing each other again!

I guess the depression era attitudes that were laughed it in the 90's are back.

 

I believe that if someone has your account number, it is possible for them to electronically withdraw funds. A lot of times when you write a check, the receiver of the check actually just withdraws the funds electronically using information off the check. The bank doesn't call you when this happens.

 

Same with an ATM.

I posted this after reading the post about the "world reserve monetary exchange offer" where they offer an overpriced safe and grossly overpriced coins. -They are not the only way for old folks to go broke. And really, looking at it that way, the safe deal is better than GM stock.

IF she owed the money, and IF she was given enough notice, and IF it was within the statutory time limits, and IF a court ordered it. Then it would be fair. The worry comes when this can happen without discovery as to whether the debt is real, is her's, is within time limits, and is properly collected. It may have been. It may not have been.

The point, I think is, that she thought the bank was safe, it is represented as such, it says it is, she thought it was. It wasn't.

We put up with the uncertainty because it would sure be inconvenient to have to personally deliver a double eagle to the bank in texas or new jersey when the mortgage is due. And besides, a double eagle is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it. Plastic money is what we have agreed to pay, and what they have agreed to accept.

Funny when real money isn't real, and plastic money is.

So I guess the question is "what flavor of mattress do you prefer?"

 

There's also the scam where you are notified that you are a sweepstakes winner or heir to some rich dude's fortune. All they need is you bank account information so they can deposit your money. Only thing is, instead of depositing the money, they clean out your account. This is probably similar to what happen with the little old lady. On the one hand, in this electronic age, some people want the flexibility of banks honoring their electronic transactions. I just want to find a bank that WON'T honor them! A person takes a check into a bank to cash it, and maybe the bank will cash it, maybe they won't. But do an electronic withdrawal from the same account, and there are no questions asked!

 

This is ONLY true if the loan was a Fed loan - if this lady can prove all of this, then she might soon be owning a business.
Really - to have that happen, she would have had to be sued, and judement would have been that either bank account was taken, or the like. In any case, she would have been served papers.

Now, I'm not totally sure I'm going to buy her story - if she really had this happen, then she needs to get a good lawyer, and fight this. She WILL come out ahead -

Speedy

 

A friend's dad got caught up in a scam like that. He wired about $80,000 to canada. He had to be forcibly separated from his mail. He actually believed that he had won, and that he was going to get a million dollars. They had to put him and his wife under a protective court order with an allowance and a money manager. They got about $40,000 back that hadn't been claimed yet from western union. The old guy actually shook a handfull of the letters at the judge and shouted that the judge was stealing his million dollars. Just about killed my friend to take his parents to court.

Another friend had someone at a store send his information to an accomplice in canada. Trouble for the thief was that the friends wife was canadian. The mounties got their man -quick.

 

I think it will be looked into, too much risk to local banks if people get scared of them. We do have one prominent local credit union that has been playing fast and loose for years, That is part of what makes this plausible, They are next door to the "credit service' and way to friendly.

 

I'm half tempted to use this post as a sig line.

I completely agree. I think some people are way too trusting of banks and the whole system. You hit the nail on the head. Whether you're paranoid or not, everyone should realize that you don't get a letter in the mail or a phone call warning you in advance of ANY type of crisis.
Especially if it involves you losing your money while the government or someone else takes it. If they warned you, they wouldn't be able to take it!
Whether it be a bank failure, a devaluation of the dollar for a new world currency, or complete government take over (for the *good*, worthy reason of obtaining tangible assets to keep the country going so everyone's on board of course! a.k.a. national emergency). Don't expect a warning.

Look at the bank stress tests. People can be mad about it or just blow it off. But they're kept a secret so people don't panic, despite the fact that many may have real, severe underlying problems putting people at risk. They don't care!!

To rub it in, you have to pay them money to keep your valuables in their possession. I guess as long as the government remains friendly and there is no crisis, there's not a thing to worry about.

I read somewhere that in case of national emergency which could be anything from a terrorist attack to an astroid strike, that the fed. govt can confiscate any property for their own use to provide "emergency assistance". At the rate they're going in debt, safety deposit boxes could be easy pickings some day if they decide they need it. And what's anybody going to do about it?

 

This is correct. There are substantial safeties involved with a safe deposit box. If you have something seized...it means that the federal government is after you like mad, or you are dead with no locatable next of kin.

 

That's the policy for now and perhaps for the past 100 years. I'm saying look back over several thousand years at what has happened with various governments which lead to their demise. Whether at their own hands or by another country or countries. Just because we're supposedly 'modern' and 'civilized' means nothing. It's actually a handicap because whatever vigilance there may have once been is long gone. (Just read the replies I'll likely get to this )

From what I understand, before all is lost there's usually a final power grab to take whatever they can from the people before everything collapses. Note that the typical democracy lasts for 2-300 years before transitioning to something else. A democracy being a temporary, transitional form of government anyway.

Would a box be safe tomorrow and for the next couple of years? Perhaps. Sure, most likely. For the next 50-100 years? Lets just say I wouldn't bet on it. May sound crazy but anymore, I think people need to start thinking outside of the box. No pun intended.

 

I don't see anything like that happening in the near future. Plus, in all those cases there were warning signs of the impending demise. Plus, if everything was collapsing I'm sure we would all have more to worry about then our coins...no matter where they are being stored.

For what it's worth, all my coins are stored in a personal safe. I don't have a safe deposit box. I collect for the joy of collecting and want to have access any time I want.

 

I can't really trust a bank. I just keep mine at home in a safe, that way I can access them when I want to

 

There is nothing not to trust about a safe deposit box. The bank can't seize anything out of it.

 

So if Bernie Madoff's victims all had their assets in safe deposit boxes, they would still be there, correct? Banks are only as safe as the criminals that run them. Spin the wheel.

 

Buy the largest heaviest safe you can afford then

As far as this story goes about this old lady having her account emptied - the bank should restore her account and start an investigation of why or how it happened. They have funds set aside for that and it's to their, (the banks) interest to find out what happened.
Early on in 1999 I responded to an fake eBay request for personal information (before I knew better) and the following week my account was emptied by companies like some gas station in New York and here's how they did it, they probe your account - first they withdraw .55 cents, then $5.55, then $55.55, then $555.55 until it's cleaned out - my credit union reimbursed me that very day and started an investigation. Turns out these fake places set up shop in other countries for less than 2-business days then start their scam by sending say a 10,000 emails - if only 2% get fooled they wipe them out and close up and move on.
The way I see it if your account at a bank gets tapped into fraudulently the bank should restore your money with no problems - they are the keepers of your money after all.

How to protect your valuables at home - Buy the largest heaviest safe you can afford then fill it with boxes of circulated cent rolls or dead weight of some sort - then store nothing of value in it but put your valuables in a ceriel box, or a shoe box or under the bed.
Thieves are stupid and will spend their time trying to move that safe or pry it open never knowing all that's in there is circulated cents or scrap metal.
I even read once about a little old lady that had a fortune in gold coins stored in large cans of nuts in the freezer - she had just emptied them and put the coins near the bottom so when opened they just looked like a can of frozen nuts.

 

The bank may seize any or everything in the box if they determine it has been abandoned. It happens all the time, in fact http://consumerist.com/consumer/gov...ifornia-may-have-seized-your-stuff-274223.php deals with CA directly, but it is also happening in other cash strapped states as well, in the same way that imminent domain is used to seize property. Is it right, no, does it happen, most assuredly. That is why your best bet is still a quality safe, a big mean dog, several handguns, booby traps, and a claymore for good measure

 

I don't have any good statistics to back me up, but I would hazard a guess that far more personal property is lost from homes and home safes than from safe deposit boxes. Nothing is perfectly safe. You just have to weigh the odds.

 

The state seizes it, not the bank.

I fully agree. It is much safer to store them things in a safe deposit box if you're worried about theft. There are many practical reasons not to...I don't because I want my coins where I can get at them at any time. But, there is no argument that storing them at home is safer against theft...none, period.