I'm fairly new to coin collecting and have a lifelong goal of obtaining a US Coin type collection. I started with the easier coins to obtain and now am getting into the more expensive coins. Recently I was attempting to purchase a Trade Dollar and found one on eBay I wanted. Luckily I searched the Coin Talk forum first and discovered that the T$ is one of the most counterfeited coins out there. This VERY helpful and informative post by ksparrow http://www.cointalk.com/t63695-2/ made me hold off my bid. Especially knowing that even the TPG holders are being counterfeited. So I'm now trying to figure out the safest and best way to purchase authentic coins since fake coins seem to be getting very advanced and extremely difficult to determine fakes from reals. I've searched forums without coming to a consensus. I live in a rural area without access to a physical dealer so I prefer purchasing online. I've noticed that even bullion sites like APMEX sell rare, TPG coins. I asked what there policy was in regards to fake coins and fake holders and they said they employ many professional numismatists that verify authenticity etc but I couldn't help but picturing a room full of college students making some cash on the side as a "professional numismatist". The person I spoke with assured me it was impossible to purchase a fake coin through APMEX and they've never had an issue with this. He said, "I suppose we would refund you but that's never happened". This answer made me feel a bit uneasy. There is also the Heritage Auctions website mentioned a lot on here but I didn't see any guarantee on their site that all coins offered for auction are authentic and in authentic TPG holders. In regards to eBay I've noticed some sellers seem way more legitimate and guarantee authenticity or take back the coin. In regards to actually dealers with physical locations I came across this website http://www.pngdealers.com/ which assures that any Dealer that is PNG certified is a safe purchase. So what's the consensus as far as avoiding obtaining fake coins/holders when purchasing rarer and more expensive coins? To me it seems there is no way to be sure. Also as a fairly new collector I'm assuming that I will not be able to spot some of the more sophisticated fakes and I'm not sure I ever will be or will have the time to be able to learn how to spot all potential fakes. So, assuming you couldn't verify the coin's authenticity yourself, what is the safest way to buy a coin, TPG or raw? Are there any truly reputable online dealers that you would feel 100% safe purchasing from and never second guess (APMEX, Heritage Auctions)? How about specific eBay coin sellers that you wholly trust? Is a PNG certified dealer that has a physical location the safest route? Are there any safer websites or means of obtaining coins that I haven't learned about yet? I greatly appreciate any insights and help. Thanks in advance!
Heritage and APMEX are safe options. Additionally, if you ever purchase a counterfeit coin or holder then the dealer has the legal responsibility of taking it back for refund. Please let me welcome you to CT, but also let me state that at this point in your collecting journey I think you may be fixated a bit too intensely on this issue.
Thanks Tom, could you elaborate a bit more on that? Are you saying that obtaining fake coins is relatively rare?
Yes, in most instances buying a counterfeit coin or holder is rare. My experience as a dealer behind a table at coin shows has led to my being offered only a few altered Lincoln cents (1909 VDB cents altered to 1909-S VDB) and my experience at coin auctions has seen only a single altered Lincoln cent (1944-D altered to 1914-D). These were all raw coins. I have never been offered a fake slab. Please keep in mind that I do larger shows and typically deal with other experienced dealers. My clients are also generally far more seasoned than the larger pool. In my opinion, much of the problem of these fake slabs or coins is that they target newer or less advanced collectors. Many newer or less advanced collectors follow the cheapest price to the bottom of the barrel and then deal with folks who are out to rip them off. These newer or less advanced collectors allow the desire for a deal to overtake their knowledge. At that point they are in trouble and make the mistake of dealing with someone who is out to rip them off. When I write a "newer or less advanced collector" what I mean is someone who is new to the hobby-industry or someone who has been involved for quite a while, but has never taken the educational aspect of the hobby-industry that seriously. There are significant resources available online and in print to help someone find out if a particular coin or holder looks off or if something is suspicious or too good to be true. Truly, if you are not certain about a coin, then walk away from it as there are always going to be more coins to choose.
First, welcome. As I've started to consider how to sell the excess in my collection, and try to upgrade into some more valuable coins, I've asked myself the same thing. While I'm comfortable buying a lot of things from eBay - the reputable sellers - I've gotten burned on a couple of coins (they were cleaned). Buying relatively more expensive pieces has forced me to ask a similar question to the one you're posing. While I don't have a convient local coin shop and I like how convenient and competetive eBay can be from a price standpoint, for those coins I'm paying more for, I'll gladly take the time to travel to my nearest PNG dealer and place an order - pay him a reasonable fee for finding, acquiring and evaluating the coins for me. The travel time and distance alone doesn't make sense for the occasional album-filler I want, and would likely be annoying to him, but for the more expensive stuff, it sure makes sense. Then I can also look at the coin before actually taking posession.
I am new too, before i make any purchases i do searches on here for whatever I am looking at purchasing. You will find more than a few members on here that are VERY VERY educated on whatever coin/money subject you are looking at. I figure before i start making major collectible purchases and sinking money into coins I will start sinking my money into books and other reference material so I can make informed purchases later on. Welcome
What Tom said is the key to answering your question binxter. What you should do, what everybody should do, is to only buy coins from sellers that you know and trust. It really is just that simple.
I really do not believe that the counterfitting of TPG slabs is as big as you think it to be. The most obvious way to tell is the price. As the saying goes: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is!
Sorry, not buying it Doug. Yes, I agree with this advice for beginners/intermediate collectors, but are you trying to tell me I have to buy all of my coins from CNG, HJB, and other recognized ancient dealers? Some of my best purchases, (and all of my best deals), I have bought from non-dealers. To me, until you know for sure you know what you are doing, I completely agree with your post. However, I believe Tom B is free to buy from whomever he wishes, he is a big boy. So are some of simple collectors as well.
Yeah, and you live, and buy coins, in another world Chris. You cannot compare ancients to US coins. Or even medieval world coins for that matter because they (ancients) are judged by entirely different standards. And I don't mean grading standards. It's a pretty unusual ancient that would not be judged as being a problem coin if you used the same standards that you apply to world coins or US coins. And yes, I do agree that there are people who can look at a coin and be confident it is authentic, be confident it is not a problem coin of one kind or another, and know if they are paying a fair price or not. But those people are few and far between, and my advice is not for them. My advice is for everybody else.
