Rotated Die Questions

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by peachymargarita, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. I would like some input on this subject from all those who care to do so. Do we consider rotated dies an error? How do we determine the degree of rotation? I mean other than 180 degrees, do we start clockwise or counter clockwise. Know what I mean? How do we assess value? Is it determined by the amount of rotation? If so is there a scale or rule of thumb for value?

    All answers welcome, thanks,

    Michael
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Michael -

    Many of your questions can be answered by - Clicking Here


    A great deal more information can be found by exploring the links found - HERE
     
  4. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    Rotated die errors are just that -- errors. Both the anvil die and the hammer die are subject to such errors. A rotated die results from at least three causes: 1) incorrect installation, 2) incorrect grinding of guide marks (e.g., "flats"), leading to incorrect installation, 3) a loose die that rotates in its recess. As a result, rotated die errors can be stable or dynamic -- or both. If a loose die is rotating and is then tightened up in the wrong position, you'll get an early series of dynamic (variable) rotations and a later series of stable (invariant) rotations. Identifying such an error as a "rotated reverse" is untenable, as it's usually impossible to say which die is in the wrong position. In rare cases, when it is possible to pinpoint rotation (such as a double-strike with rotation on the second strike), it's always been the hammer die. At least that's what I've found. But the sample of such errors is small and cannot be seen as providing an accurate guide to the relative frequency of hammer vs. anvil rotation.
     
  5. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    Maybe I don't completely understand the question, but I just use a protractor.

    B
     
  6. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    Generally, rotated die errors are measured in degrees of deviation from perfect coin rotation. By convention, reverse rotation is measured relative to the obverse, which is considered fixed for this purpose. Degrees of rotation are measured clockwise (CW) or counterclockwise (CCW) relative to a vertical axis defined by perfect coin rotation relative to the obverse face. So, for example, you can have a 90 degree CW rotation or a 90 degree CCW rotation. No rotation can be greater than 180 degrees. The greater the rotation, the greater the value, with 180 degrees being the most desirable. Rotations of less than 40 degrees carry little value.
     
  7. huntsman53

    huntsman53 Supporter**

    Michael,

    You can determine the degree of rotation by creating a gauge of sorts! Take a pieice of clear plastic such as one side of a document protector and draw an outline of the coin or similar sized coin on it, now draw a line running North to South and another West to East through the center of the outline, then draw lines between these lines to create a template with 8 degrees of the Compass on it. Make sure that you extend all of the lines beyond the outer perimeter of the outline. You can then label each one starting at North and going around the the entire outline Clockwise (i.e. 0 or 360 degrees, 45 degrees, 90 degrees, 135 degrees, 180 degrees, 135 degrees, 90 degrees and 45 degrees). You never use any degree higher than 180 degrees as the opposite side of the coin is either rotated Clockwise or CounterClockwise 0 through 180 degrees but never beyond 180 degrees. As an example, the opposite side (usually reference to the Reverse) of one coin may be rotated 120 degrees Clockwise while another is rotated 120 degrees CounterClockwise. Likewise, one coin may be rotated 90 degrees CounterClockwise while another is rotated 170 degrees Clockwise.

    You then take the coin and line up the correct upright position top of the coin with South (180 degrees) and the bottom with North (0 or 360 degrees). Now look at the Reverse side of the coin and note where the upright position falls in respect to the labelled lines (either to the left or to the right) and that is the degree of rotation, Clockwise or CounterClockwise.


    Good luck...Frank
     
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