Rose Thorns and Oil with Success

Posting this not to encourage flagrant, dangerous coin practices, but to help those who don't like junk on their coins and don't want to mess them up by trying to "fix" them. Lord knows, I have done that already as seen in previous threads. Practice on lots of low value wheats. I usually use 5-7 fresh rose thorns with a green roots so it's not too stiff which will scratch the coin. The sharper the better or you will scratch the coin by smashing the grime into the coin verses lifting it. Usually turn the coin a lot to push the grime into the lettering verses away from it (this will scratch the coin in my experience if you push the grime away from the edges of the dentils, lettering, rims or wherever the grime is). Use a micro fiber cloth or an air-tite to hold coin still and loope with other hand. Use mineral oil to decrease friction. I usually soak a couple months (no less than 2 weeks) in a plastic cup. Use xylene or MEK to remove the oil. Hope this helps others.

Give me a second to post after photos:

 

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After:

Will send for grading possibly. Got this coin for about $98 if I remember right.

 

NO responses to this?? I can't believe it. Must have been a long Monday and no one saw it. Where is AJ, Jim, Thad, RLM, Jello, and the other coin gods and chemists? Sorry if I missed any here.

 

Well this is quite amazing..
You completely changed the coins grade, without me even seeing that you did it!
If you would have just said guess the grade, with the second set of pics, I would have no clue that you just did what you did
I'm guessing this is no form of cleaning, really, because I can't see that you did anything, unless you told me!
WOWZER! Nice job, and for $98 and some touching up, you just got yourself a nice high grade coin! CONGRATS

 

Thanks Travs. I PM some people as I can't believe so little posted on this. I was quite proud of myself. I have been having these kind of outcomes regularly. Purposely buying coins with grime which causes them to costs less and rehab them to beauty. I don't consider this any form of chemical alteration and have no quams with this practice. Keep in mind, this kind of thinking can be dangerous so practice on low value coins- A lot of them, like 50-100 in my opinion. I practiced on my S VDB like a ding-dong and you know the outcome there.

 

Well I'll find some wheaties I have that have grime, if I have any
All my wheats are just low grade, and I'm going to sell my set of wheats!
I might start back up again, but if I do, I'm going to do it one way.. Graded by PCGS, and the highest grade I can afford.. But I'd really rather just sell my wheats off, completely, and continue working on morgans and gold indians, of $2.5 and $10 variety..
Now back to the thread, I think this is amazing, I mean, you easily bumped the coin's grade by a few spots, just be doing something so simple!

 

Hi Boss,

You did a good job of removing the debris especially around the "Liberty". I couldn't see any scratches or such from the effort. For some reason, I was wondering if the background and lighting for the photos were the same, as I have a hard time telling if the effect has altered the coin color? I suspect it is just a lighting difference. I have no roses near by to use.

The last couple of weeks have been hectic as most of our rentals have 5/31 | 6/1, lease dates so moveout-moveins, with applications, security checks, financial checks, etc.....I have only been able to answer a few threads .

Jim

 

Thanks Jim. I stink at lighting and it is the lighting in my opinion. I do at different times of the day so the post oil/rose thorn is in the day and the pre is at night. The coin in hand looks a lot like the pre coin photos with all grime gone and better luster. Also the IS black background changes the look of the color. I just finished organizing all my photos so now I can find them easier. Took a lot of hours so I hope I can now be more scientific like you. I put this back in Safe Deposit box so not easy to rephoto now.

I sympathize with your rental situation. Good that you have leasees to put in those properites. Good to here from you.

 

This is a technique I learn about first in ancients, though often the ancients crust is MUCH harder and requires something a bit more stiff (or a seriously long soak). I have never used this method on modern coins but I must say, your results are impressive! The stress is that the thorns MUST be pretty fresh or it WILL scratch the coin. The thorn needs to be able to bend... thanks for posting this.

 

Very nice conservation job! Makes up for the S-VDB....almost, LOL.

 

I got a ways to go to make up for that sin!

 

Let us know if you get it slabbed. As long as the color didn't change and the mineral oil is not detectable on the surface, you did very well.

 

Boss, If I can't do this successfully, I'd like to send you some coins... LOL (Hoping I get them back???) LOL

 

Very interesting thread :thumb: how long did it take you to work round that cent :hail:

 

Very nice job!

 

Actually I would be happy to help people selectively with their coins because I find it so much fun. You would definitely get any coin back Travis if you sent me one. If Johny54321 wants to send me his 1912 S I will turn into a low AU beauty (the one he posted today).
I don't think I spent to long on the coin. Did the removal probably three seperate times. Maybe a total of 2 -3 hours at most not counting oil soaking time. I will send to PCGS when I get some dough. Got about 10-15 coins I need to send.

 

Sounds good, I'll contact you, if I have any for this process...
Thank You Boss

 

A few points worth considering...

I think the results are pleasing but would like to see some super high-resolution before and after photos before commenting further.

Always happy to see these experiments on common, inexpensive coins rather than more esoteric/older pieces.

The OP has just found out why rose thorns have been used by copper enthusiasts for a long time -- if done carefully the result is removal of only the verdigris and far less risky than removal by (more costly, less time-tested, and potentially problematic) chemical means.

Dipping copper in solvents (edited: like xylene or methyl ethyl ketone or acetone) can and does remove some of the protective oils that are present on circulated copper. Care should be taken that the coin's surfaces don't become reactive again by a solvent dip. Many copper collectors would lightly brush and oil the coin to protect it's surfaces.

The OP should keep a close eye on the coin over the next few months/years as the coin can (and likely will) change as a result of the removal of these protective oils. Also check for reformation of the verdigris/corrosion as it has a penchant for reappearing over time even if stored in pristine conditions.

All of the above IMHO and based on my experience....Mike

 

Thanks Mike- this is why I had the debate with the chemist- Thad and Jim on my first Rose Thorns and oils. I cannot prove on a chemical basis that the coins won't get altered with longtime use of oils, but have since then talked to a lot of people who have used mineral oil, Coin Care or Blue Ribbon for many, many years with no ill effect and protected surfaces. People higher up in the coin world. In otherwords I agree with you point in general. If you do a quick solvent dip to remove previously applied oil, you should either reoil or make sure there is still some presence of natural oil still visible on the coin. Despite what the chemist proved about sulfur reacting the coins over time, I think more people believe it protects way more than it harms. The main risk is to full RD coppers- these can turn brown quicker with oils per some people.

 

FYI- I reoiled the coin with Coin Care after the photos and it looks awesome. I forgot to take photos, or didn't think about it actually.