Roman Empire: billon reduced centenionalis; VRBS ROMA city commemorative, ca. 330-340 AD

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Oct 19, 2020.

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How interesting/appealing do you find this coin, whether or not you're an expert? (1=worst, 10=best)

  1. 10

    7 vote(s)
    14.6%
  2. 9

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. 8

    18 vote(s)
    37.5%
  4. 7

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. 6

    3 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. 5

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  7. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  9. 2

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Roman Empire: billon reduced centenionalis; VRBS ROMA city commemorative, ca. 330-340 AD
    01-UrbsRoma-frame.png
    Obverse: VRBS ROMA, bust of Roma left in plumed helmet, imperial mantle, and ornamental necklace.
    Reverse: Lupa Romana (she-wolf) left, suckling the twins Romulus and Remus; two stars above; • ASIS • mintmark in exergue.
    Issuer: Roman Empire, commemorating the founding of Constantinopolis.
    Specifications: Billon, 19 mm approx., 2.94 g. Struck at Siscia mint, first officina.
    Grade: NGC Ch AU (Strike: 5/5, Surface: 4/5), cert. #5770260-006. Acquired raw.
    Reference: RIC VII Siscia 240*, Sear 16515.
    Provenance: gift from Josh Zachman (@kazuma78 on CoinTalk), 2019.
    Notes: the reverse of this coin shows the legendary twins Romulus and Remus being suckled by a she-wolf, as described in the founding myth of Rome.
    Comments: I have been told that the strike on this example is superior since it shows so much more of the fur details on the wolf than is typically seen on this type.

    01-UrbsRoma-frame.png 02-UrbsRoma-Photovision.png 03-UrbsRoma-black.png 04-UrbsRoma-gradient.png 06-UrbsRoma-coinscape.png 07-UrbsRoma-obv.png 08-UrbsRoma-rev.png 09-UrbsRoma-slab.png

    005000S
     
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  3. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    I have none, and know little about them, but I have been toying with the idea of building a small collection of city commemoratives from this era, and I wouldn't turn my nose up at this example at all. A solid 8 for me.
     
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  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I also voted "8" in the poll, by the way. I try to be objective, but due to owner bias, the coins in my primary collection seldom rate less than an 8. So this is a "keeper" - anything less than an 8 in my eyes would be something I'd sell off, probably.

    Oh- if anybody cares, NGC just gave this one a Choice AU grade; Strike 5/5, Surface 4/5. It is just back from its nearly three-month sojourn in Sarasota. While a bit disgruntled about the turnaround time, I was pleased with that outcome. (Somewhat less so with the results from the other- more expensive- coins in that submission.)

    I'm the one who sent it off to be entombed in acrylic, so you may throw your rotten vegetables at me, not Josh. ;)

    *Ow! Ow!* OK, you can stop now. And put down those pitchforks! Geez.

    (Yes, I admit it. I'm a sl*bber. I do it for consistency with the rest of my collection, and for my albums. If I only collected ancients, they would be properly free and "nekkid", I assure you.)
     
  5. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    L.M., I gave the coin an 8 on your scale because it's an excellent example of a historically important coin :D. Victor Clark can give you the historical background on this coin from his thesis paper.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I like Roma's cheerful smile on the obverse. I presume that's Roma, right? I mean, who else would it be?
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  7. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    L.M., You can access Victor Clark's study on the internet, check it out ;).
    CONSTANTINE THE GREAT: THE COINS SPEAK, Murfreeboro, Tennessee, 2009.
     
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's a lovely coin, @lordmarcovan! I see why you felt compelled to acquire it.

    I love the city commemoratives of this era! I don't focus on them the way I do on the Antonine women or the coins of Trebonianus Gallus and Volusian, I do acquire them whenever I see a particularly attractive one at a reasonable price.

    To appreciate the series, as you point out, one does have to know the myth of Romulus and Remus and the she-wolf.

    [​IMG]

    You may read a thread I started a couple of years ago about the use of the Lupa Romana as a motif on Roman coins for an overview. As noted above, @Valentinian has written several pages about these coins and their counterparts that commemorate the founding of Constantinople:

    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/CON/Founding.html
    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/CON/CONSTANTINOPOLIS.html
    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/imitVR.html
    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/imitCONST.html

    I like the series because these coins were issued by every mint in the empire and they have various reverse types (not just wolf and twins) and various markings in the fields. There are hundreds of varieties. Moreover, the series was frequently imitated and one could devote a lifetime to these unofficial/imitative coins.

    This officially issued one is from Constantia/Arles and has a branch in the upper field, for example:

    [​IMG]
    Constantine I, AD 307-337.
    Roman billon reduced centenionalis, 2.44 g, 17.4 mm, 12 h.
    Constantina/Arles, AD 331-332.
    Obv: VRBS ROMA, helmeted bust of Roma, left, wearing imperial robes.
    Rev: Lupa Romana, left, suckling Romulus and Remus; branch between two stars above; SCONST in exergue.
    Refs: RIC vii p. 273, 368; RCV 16497; LRBC I 371; Cohen 17.

    This one, for example, has a GLORIA EXERCITVS with soldiers and standard(s) reverse instead of the wolf and twins motif. This was not an accidental "mule" situation, but an official issue at some mints.

    [​IMG]
    Sons of Constantine I.
    Roman billion reduced centenionalis, 1.67 g, 15.5 mm.
    Heraclea, AD 337-340.
    Obv: VRBS ROMA, helmeted bust of Roma, left.
    Rev: GLORIA EXERCITVS, two soldiers holding one standard between them; SMHЄ in exergue.
    Refs: RIC viii, p. 431, 28; LRBC I, 941; RCV 16529.

    Issued alongside the VRBS ROMA commemoratives were the CONSTANTINOPOLI(S) commemoratives. This one, for example, is your coin's sister from another officina. Yours is RIC Siscia 240 and this one is RIC 241. Your coin and this one were minted in Siscia (modern Sisek in central Croatia) between AD 334-335, but yours was minted in the first officina (A), whereas mine was minted in the second officina (B). The issue with the dots before and after the mint mark came after the issue without the dots.

    [​IMG]
    Constantine I, AD 307-337.
    Roman billon centenionalis, 2.22 g, 17.8 mm, 6 h.
    Siscia, AD 334-335.
    Obv: CONSTAN-TINOPOLIS, bust of Constantinopolis, laureate, helmeted, wearing imperial cloak, left, holding reversed spear in right hand.
    Rev: Victory, winged, draped, standing left on prow, holding spear in right hand and shield in left hand; •BSIS• in exergue.
    Refs: RIC vii, p. 456, 241; Cohen 21; LRBC I 751; RVC 16469.

    So, I voted 10, because I think this series is of the highest interest!
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I shall. Thank you.
     
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  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    And thank you, sir, for that detailed reply, which I will do my best to digest before I retool the original post into my writeup.
     
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  11. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Question 1. Would I be correct to assume that “billon reduced centenionalis” might be a more precise description of the denomination than NGC’s “AE3/4 (BI Nummus)“?
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  12. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    Wow, lots of good info in this thread!! I gave it an 8 also. As the first ancient I bought, I was drawn to it because of the detail in the she wolf and the twins and the story the dealer told me of the mythology. I think I was probably about 15-17 years old when I bought that coin at one of the World's Fair of Money. I knew less than nothing about ancients at the time and it just happened to strike my fancy.
     
  13. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Roman Collector likes this.
  15. Archeocultura

    Archeocultura Well-Known Member

    My branch example from Arles. Ferrando 960 VII Arles F 0960 Urbs 12-1899.jpg
     
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  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Very nice Commem, @lordmarcovan ...

    I tried chasing the VRBS ROMA and CONSTANTINOPLIS commems a few years ago. Got a few, but, just could not get into LRB's. I moved back to my focus to historical coinage from BCE.

    This one is on my desk...
    [​IMG]
    I understand this is a She Wolf design from ETRURIA (yeah, those folks who deeply influenced the foundation of Rome.)


    upload_2020-10-19_8-53-13.png
    RI URBS ROMA 223-336 CE Romulus Remus She-wolf S R Alexandria mint AE 15mm 1.5g RIC VIII 8 C2 Left Rare


    upload_2020-10-19_8-54-0.png
    RI commem AE Follis Urbs ROMA She-wolf Rom Rem Stars RIC VII Lyons - LUGDUNUM 242 Left


    upload_2020-10-19_8-55-5.png
    RI Commem Urbs Roma AE Follis Thessalonika 330-333 CE She-Wolf Rom-Rem stars S 16516R Left


    upload_2020-10-19_8-57-5.png
    Rome VRBS ROMA commem 330-331 CE Æ reduced centenionalis, 16mm, 2.5g, 12h; Trier mint, CE 330-331 She-wolf RIC VII 529 Left
     
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  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    The type to me is very interesting. Its all the more interesting if you get Guido Bruck's book on late roman types. There are DOZENS of different control marks between the stars on the reverse you can collect, the most in demand being the ChiRo. I probably own 6 or 8 different control marks. I started picking them up after seeing the Bruck book. I have been close to a ChiRo a couple of times. I could have owned it, but this is not even really a subcollection of mine so I usually back off when the price reaches a certain level.

    As a generic type, I think they are wonderful. What says ancient Rome more than the wolf and twins?
     
  18. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Hmm. Suddenly I find myself wanting one of those lup- lupa- eh- um- she-wolf sculptures now! :)

    Now that I actually have a desk, for the first time in 20+ years...
     
  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    upload_2020-10-19_10-30-8.png

    Y'all are too much, sometimes.

    (*I mean that in a good way.) ;)

    Nahhh, keep it comin'. My brain hasn't quite burst.

    Yet. :nailbiting:

    .
     
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  20. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    I have several. Here is one of mine, not near as good as most.
    No 11 URBS ROMA.jpg
     
  21. Hermann Watzlawik

    Hermann Watzlawik Well-Known Member

    I like your coin lordmarcovan! See two of my commemoratives. One with the she-wolf and one GLORIA ROMANORVM

    Treveri (Trier) mint, 1st officina. Struck under Constantine I, AD 330-331.
    VS: VRBS ROMA, bust of Roma left wearing plumed, visored and crested helmet and ornamental mantle
    RS: she-wolf and twins left above 2 stars. Mintmark TRP dot.
    SAM_2811a.JPG SAM_2810a.JPG

    Obverse: Roma wearing a Visored Helmet and Imperial Mantle, bust left
    Lettering: VRBS ROMA

    Reverse: Two soldiers standing facing, flanking a Single standard in centre, heads confronted, each holds a spear in outer hand and rests inner hand on grounded shield, o on Banner, CONSA in ex.

    Lettering: GLORIA EXERCITVS
    SAM_5589 .JPG SAM_5588.JPG
     
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