[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This seems to be another slow night down at the ole forum, so I thought I'd ask this question to see if we can generate some activity. What is the history behind the various Roman coin denominations? I mean, where does the name "Sestertius" originate? Some of the denominations are logical. Quadran = One Fourth (of an As), or Sextan = One Sixth (of an As). For that matter what is the history behind the denomination "As" or how about "Follis"? Most of these we use, Denarius, Siliqua, Dupondius, Quinarius, etc, etc, without the understanding of what they mean. I know what a penny is. Or a nickel, dime, quarter, etc. These I understand without much thought. Any body really understand the Roman coin denominations?[/FONT]
good question, check out DS's page on the topic, i guess some of the names we used weren't used when the coin were minted. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/denom.html
I just found part of the answer. The name "Sestertius" comes from Semis tertius meaning three halves of an As or that a Sesterius is equal to one and a half As. Hm, that's something I didn't know before. Now an "As" was a weight. The weight that could be held in the hand of an outstretched arm. That would be one large coin if using someone with well built arms.
Thanks. Yeah, I've read that link before, and it answers my question only partially. What I'm looking for are the origins of the words used.
Sunday nights are typically slow on the forum, partly because many auctions end on Sunday night. I've been tracking a number of them on eBay and TT myself, although I'm not buying - just market research. The denominations are a complicated business. Doug's page is a great primer. The intro to ERIC has a rather ponderous chart that includes the various debasements and reforms. As to etymology, I have no idea...
Yeah, "etymology" is the word I was looking for. It was slow on the other forum as well. Probably for the same reasons. Oh well, I thought it might be interesting to see where the words came from and this seemed like a good time to ask. But now it's getting late for these old bones so I am off to bed soon.
Sestertius means half of the third. We would say two and a half. The denarius was originally ten asses so a quarter denarius was two and a half which we see abbreviated IIS. Later they retarrifed the denarius to 16 asses but did not change the names. The early as fractions were all based on the unit uncia which was an ounce. The Roman pound had 12 ounces (as we still use for some precious metal weighing systems) rather than 16. They coins were marked with dots that count the number of twelths. A triens was a third of an as so it got four dots; the quadrans was a forth so it got three. The system called the 2 dot 1/6 a sextans and one dot 1/12 the uncia. There are even a few 5/12 and other odd denominations but people like me won't own them. All this was based on the 'liberal' as or a coin weighing one Roman pound of copper. They are commonly available for a couple thousand $ now and something I wish I had bought back when they were only one thousand. After a while inflation caused the liberal (pound weighing not politically non-conservative) system to drop with each step named according to how much an as weighed. For example we see semi-liberal (half pounders) and sextantal (2 ouncers). Asses usually retained the Janus and prow design so weight is a great help in dating a coin. A similar dot system was used in Italy/Sicily by Greek cities based on an at first silver and later bronze litra and Greek names hemilitron, trias, tetras, hexas etc. My Syracuse silver hexas weighs about .05g and has two dots. To the best of my knowledge they did not strike a one dot silver. You can tell when a dealer is an amateur in these things because many confuse the triens with four dots with the quadrans which as three. The dots refer to the twelfths so a fourth is 3/12 while a third is 4/12. This would not happen if these guys had paid attention in fourth grade math class.
Thanks Doug. That's what I was looking for. I also found the following two lists on another site: And this:
Regarding sestertius: I think this may relate to an ancient tendency to see things differently than we do. For example we are coming into the Easter season when Christians celebrate the Ressurection of Christ on the 'Third Day'. The Crucifiction was on Friday (Good Friday) and the Resurrection on Sunday. To get 3 days you have to count both ends which was the way they saw things. Modern calendars don't count a year until it has passed and most of you say how old you were on your last birthday even if it was 11 months ago. I believe ancients would have seen it more like our little children who might point out that they will be five on their next birthday. Romans counted days until the next special day so March 10 was 'five days before the Ides of March' and 20 March was '12 days before the Kalends of April'. I hope I did the math right on those but the point is that IIS sestertius was half way to a third as rather than the third half. It is a question like the glass being half full or half empty. Who knows the name of a half denarius? Quinarius refers to five asses which was half of the original 10 as denarius rather than the new style 16 as version. I imaging there are a bunch more that could draw this out but most people stopped reading my 'short' answers years ago. Your turn Bing. Tell us how we went from disme to dime. How many double sawbucks do you get for a double eagle? A Guinea and a Pound? If the Earl bought three sandwiches each costing a Bob and a Groat how much change was he due from his Half Crown? The Romans were no more strange than modern man; they just got here first.
If I have a hard time with the denominations of the coins I collect, you can imagine what kind of problems I might have with obsolete terms for modern coinage. However, I feel fairly good that I know disme (one tenth) and a sawbuck (I still use the term when I'm back home in the hills). All in all, between your answers and what I found on the web, I think I have my answers. You're too modest. Your "short" answers are always informative and well received.
What I find even more provocative is how we still don't know the names of many deonminations of provincial coins, or even know LRB denominations really well. Just think about all of the coinage information that has been lost over the years. For some reason, coinage was never really written about very much. I think its one of those things people assumed "everyone knew".
Man, it is often very humbling when I read through some of these threads and/or when I read through dougsmit's links ... I just finished gazing-through the table on denominations within ERIC II ... I counted over 20 different denominations associated with "Main Roman Imperial Coin Denominations": Aureus - Gold - 25 Denarii Binio - Gold - 2 Aurei Solidus - Gold - 1/2 Aureus Semissis - Gold - 1/2 Solidus Tremissis - Gold - 1/3 Solidus 1-1/2 Scripulum - Gold - 9 Siliquae Denarius - Silver - 4 Sestertii Cistophoric Tetradrachms - Silver - 3 Denarii Antoninianus - Silver - 2 Denarii Argenteus - Silver - 1-1/2 Denarii Quinarius - Silver - 1/2 Denarius Siliqua - Silver - 1/24 Solidius Miliarense - Silver ~ 2 Siliquae Sestertius - Bronze - 1/4 Denarius (2 Dupondii) Double Sestertius - Bronze - 2 Sestertii Dupondius - Bronze - 1/2 Sestertius As - Bronze - 1/2 Dupondius Semis - Bronze - 1/2 As Quadrans - Bronze - 1/2 Semis AE1 AE2 AE3 AE4 => sadly, I only have approximately "half" of the total denominations!! - Denarius - Tetradrachm - Antoninianus - Sestertius - Dupondius - AS - Semis - Quadrans - AEs ... man, I've gotta start buying some more coins!!! SIDE-NOTE => The first "paper-money" appeared in China in 806 A.D.
Maybe that is the first paper money, it will depend more on the definition of paper than anything else. There were papyrus documents similar to negotiable checks in ancient Egypt. Those would be debatable as to whether they were "money". In ancient Babylon there are cuneiform tablets promising payment upon receipt. To me that would be "paper money", just no "paper". Btw, I had never heard of a Binio or a scripulum. "Binio" I would have thought was where they played "Gallic hold-em" and lost all of their aureii.
We don't really know what the Antoninianus was called and then we sometimes change it to Aurelianus but from a purely modern viewpoint. There is also the Double Antoninianus/Aurelianus to watch out for, good luck with that one. Martin
Good times at the ol' Roman Binio Hall: "Under the B, 4 ... B-4 ... before and after" *(muffled laughter throughout the coliseum)* "BINIO => I gots a Binio!!" "Looks like Marcvs has a Binio ... congratulations Marcvs ... everybody give Marcvs a big round of applause before we cut off his head"
Sorry to confuse you my good friend ... nuthin' that I write has any secret meaning ... I'm usually just jottin' down random disturbing Monty-Python-like visuals that are constantly dancing around in my head!!
