Relative Importance of Coin Grade "Components" for MS coins...

Hi all,

I've been reading more about the typical "components" of a coin's grade (namely strike, luster, surface preservation, eye appeal) and I just had a few questions.

For the moment I generally collect just MS63-65 Walkers, Morgans, Peace Dollars, and Early Commems so my questions are mainly about those...

This might just be me, but having looked at a pretty large number of slabbed coins in this range, it seems that the surface preservation (essentially the number/severity/location of bag marks, etc.) seems to be by far the most important factor in distinguishing MS63 from MS64 from MS65 coins.

Does this make any sense? It seems that strike with these in the MS63-65 category is rarely an issue. I'm a bit confused about luster - what exactly makes for "bad" luster on a coin in this range? Obviously the nature of the luster varies depending on the mint, date, etc. but is some form of luster "worse" than another? Along similar lines, it seems that eye appeal itself (although clearly impacting value) doesn't seem to have as large of an impact on the actual grades I see on slabbed coins.

Anyhow, any advice would be very much appreciated. I'm just confused - it seems like when I look at a slabbed mid-grade MS coin (again just talking about the types I have a little experience with), it's almost entirely the marks that are making the difference

 

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way to go dont stop keep talking :thumb: we finally have him in a chatty mood after a while

 

Thanks for the insight - much appreciated!

 

I would think the number and placement of marks would have to be the most important factor. Luster is sort of a pass-fail test, either it is present and unbroken or not. Toning can change over time as the coin ages. Eye appeal is subjective.

 

Yep.

Of the factors listed, it's the most objective. I think the TPGs give it the most weight; baggy coins will almost always be low MS.

 

It is my opinion that questions such as these can best be answered with photos rather than words. I will post photos of two NGC MS64 Morgan Dollars (photos courtesy of Heritage). The first will have razor sharp strike, full luster, blazing eye appeal, and enough bag marks to possible warrant an MS63 (if your picky). The second will have flat luster impeded by toning, a weak strike, ugly as hell, and not a bag mark to be found. Literally, the second coin has the surfaces of an MS66 (at least).




The answer to your question is that they are all important with surface preservation being most important. From the photos you can see that if coin ones surfaces were better, the coin has the strike, luster, & eye appeal to go all the way to the top. The second coin has tremendous surfaces, but lacks the other three elements of grading and is limited to an MS64 by those deficiencies.

Every aspect of grading can limit a coins grade. The most common limiting element is surface preservation. I would list strike and luster equal in this regard among grades over MS65. Eye appeal has the least effect on grade IMO because it is a product of the other three. Show me a remarkably preserved fully struck and lustrous coin and I bet it will be pretty.

Eye appeal for better of worse is the area where a coins grade can be bumped up instead of down. If the strike and luster are there, a coin with oustanding eye appeal (usually from toning) will often be market graded up one grade over it's technical grade.

 

In Halperin's book, he gives twice as much weight to surface preservation as to strike, luster, and eye appeal, which receive equal weight. just some more food for thought.

 

In my world, copper, originality is a huge factor.

Strike, wear, color and marks are important determining factors when I grade a coin, but if it is not original.............

On BU coins, the first and foremost thing that I will notice from a distance is color/luster, but I instead focus on strike and marks.

Thats just me and my system.

Eye appeal is everything. A cpl of badly placed dingers can kill a coin no matter how lusterous and well struck it is.

Toning will weight into the factor only after it has passed the other tests. A gorgous rainbow album toned coin with a scarface or banged up wheat is just that. A scarface banged up toner.

What good is any of that if the coin has been dipped or recolored ?

EDIT: I recently submitted a beauty toner, then posted the TruView here. After the color wore off ( mentally) this forum was able to disect the coin, and I learned a whole lot, and gained from the whole thing.

 

That seems like double-counting. If a coin that is otherwise a 63 is raised to a 64 because of eye appeal, then someone will look at the slab and recognize that the 64 has great eye appeal and possibly determine that it is really worthy of a 65. I think it would be more accurate to grade it as a 63 with great eye appeal.

 

Makes sense. In grades 66 and above, there should be almost no visible marks, so they can't contribute much to the grade.

 

Excellent post, L96. It really points out the unshakable truth - not all 64s are created equal !