These are coins that I have collected in the late sixities and early seventies. I would buy these from money I earned mowing grass. I graduated high school in 1971. Every Morgan dollar I collected was uncirculated, bright white and shiney. Recently I purchased primasoft coin organizer deluxe and started recording all the Morgans and Peace dollars I owned. I had put all of them in air tites long ago and when I was looking at them, I remembered on most when I had purchased them...even over thirty years ago. Any way, I started sending them to NGC for grading and die attribution. I recieved back a 1878-P Morgan MS63 Vam 42 7 over 7 tailfeather! The others were a MS63 1903-0 no vam anything, a 1878-cc MS 64, no vam, an 1882-cc MS 61, no vam I really don't understand the Vam varieties very well, but coins I haven't really looked at in thirty years deserve credible grading and attribution. Besides, it is fun to look at coins I sweated and worked hard to purchase over thirty years ago and see them all comming back MS60 and better. I have 54 Morgans left to grade before I am through. On an interesting note: The most I paid for any them were thirty-five dollars
I never got into Morgans to much. Those huge mintages and huge populations of ms65+ coins scares me away (bu Morgans are can be found in bag quantities to this day). I must admit though they are gorgeous coins
Nice Vam, I like Peace dollars more then Morgans, but morgans are still very nice looking coins to have
There is no such thing as a bad silver dollar. They are nice, big chunks of silver and history. A VF Morgan is still beautiful to me.
No offense to Danr, but an 1878 7/8 Vam 42 is a GREAT coin. Huge Populations????? Huge as in 980 MILLION new buffs??? Are you kidding me? Huge as in there are less than 1000 Known MS65 1878 Morgans in ANY variety, whether it be 8TF, 7TF, 7/8 TF??? Show me a bag.
It is an 1878-P Vam 42 7 over 7 tailfeather, not 7 over 8. It is a bit unusual. The NGC population report for that grade is 21. Imagine my surprise having it over thirtry years and not knowing that. I have an 1879-S NGC MS 65. I am sending in to NGC for Vam attribution. I 'think' it may be a reverse 1878. Vam's are rather new to me. I don't pretend to understand the minute differences, but I have 54 ungraded ( all UNC) I want to send off and seven or eight that are NGC certified high grade MS 65 but not Vam attributed. It has put my silver dollar collecting in a new and to me very facinating light.
That's great stuff. Congrats! If you want to check the different reverses, here is a link with some pictures. Sounds like you've got a nice hoard!
I was not really talking about the specific coins that Oz is fortunate enought own (congrats on the VAM BTW). It is just that when I see how many millions of ms65+ Morgans are out there it turns me off to the series. Unc Morgans were saved in greater quantities than any other coin I can think of. I mean there were vault-fulls as late as the 60's. On the other hand at a local coin shop they put out raw Morgans at ms63 prices and people can sometimes cert them at ms65 and sell them for strong money (there is a strong market for them).
I guess it's just supply and demand. The price of a coin with 1 million specimens and 10 million collectors can be higher than the price of a coin with 100,000 specimens and 100 collectors. Morgans are such great coins that it seems that the demand will always be there. It's a good thing there are million of them. If there were only a few hundred thousand, most people wouldn't be able to collect them or afford them.
The 1878 is attributed by NGC as a 7/7, but it is from the varieties (17 at last count I believe) commonly known as 7/8 tailfeathers. Some of these even have no extra tailfeathers showing, but have strongly doubled eagles legs and talons. Up until fairly recently, NGC only attributed these as 1878 7/8 Strong, or 1878 7/8 Weak, depending on the number of tailfeathers showing. The reverse of 1878 (also known as 2nd reverse) is easy to tell. If the top tailfeather on the arrows is parallel with the other feathers, it is a reverse of 1878 (2nd reverse). If the top tailfeather on the arrows points up in a slanted direction, ir is reverse of 1879 (3rd reverse). For those wondering what the first reverse is, it is the 8 TF variety. I would suggest buying Leroy Van Allen & A. George Mallis` Encyclopedia of Morgan & Peace Dollars- the VAM book. It is fairly pricey at around $60-$80, but worth every penny, if you want to do some Vam research before you send Morgans willy-nilly to NGC and pay for them to attribute them.
I will expand a little on my previous post concerning the 1878 7/8 varieties, as these are my favorite Morgans. Vams 30 through 45 are generally considered the 7/8 varieties. Vams 30, 31, and 45 have no extra tailfeathers showing. You might ask how these are considered 7/8 varieties. The mint originally minted a run of about 750,000 8 tailfeather design. When it was brought to the attention of mint officials that eagles could only have an odd number of tailfeathers, it was decided to modify the design on the reverse to a 7 tailfeather design. Why they cared is anybodies guess, they could have claimed artistic license. In any case, the mint was under tremendous pressure to coin massive quantities of silver into dollars as mandated by the Bland-Allison Act of 1878. As it took several days, and 7-10 blows from a master hub to impress a working die, it was decided to expedite the process by re-hubbing the 8 tailfeather working dies on hand with the newer 7 tailfeather hubs. This procedure took less time than hubbing 7 TF dies from scratch. They tried polishing off the resulting remains of 8 TF showing under the 7 TF of these re-hubbed 8TF dies with varying success. Some of these (Vams 30, 31, and 45) show no extra tailfeathers, but with doubled legs and talons on the eagle. Some, like Vam 42, show 7 TF remaining. The fact that these are a 7TF design rehubbed (impressed) over an origianal 8TF die are why these are called 7/8 varieties, no matter how many tailfeathers, if any, are showing. Vams 30~45 are all considered 7/8 varieties. NGC has tried to clear up this confusion by attributing how many TF out of a possible 7 are showing. A Vam 33 for instance, can have either 3, or 4 TF showing. NGC will label a Vam 33 as either 7/3 TF, or a 7/4 TF. A Vam 30, or 31, which has no underlying TF will be a 7/0 TF. A Vam 42 with all 7 possible TF showing, will be labeled 7/7 TF. Apparently the 8th tailfeather is always completely overstuck (not visable), hence a total possible 7TF showing. The mint eventually hubbed enough 7TF only dies, that when these became available, the re-hubbed 7TF over 8TF dies were discontinued. It is generally accepted that about 750,000 of the various 7/8TF varieties were struck. Bruce
I very much appreciate the information you posted. It is very informative. My dealer I work with ( in the Kansas City area) has a certain distain for Vam attributed coins. I do not share that view. I pretty much toll along by myself with little or no assistance. I will certainly purchase the book tommorow. I am facinated by the many varieties. While I realize the expense of attributing these coins, there really isn't any other venue I know of that could or would work with me. The last class I had grading coins was in 1971. Also, there is a certain element of wonder, of why I was attracted to these particular coins thirty years ago. I am curious to see how they 'officially' grade and whether I had a keen eye back then. I have learned more in this thread than any conversations with my dealer...ever! I appreciate the WONDERFUL INSIGHT and I can only wish I had someone like you to visit and learn from, to do business with, and share all the many vagaries of collecting Silver dollars.....Thank you.
Let us be clear on this one issue. Every Morgan has a VAM number. A VAM number is a number assigned by Leroy C. Van Allen & A. George Mallis. The VAM number represents a specific combination of obverse and reverse die pairs. I was a little offended by the statement that a dealer has "a certain distain for Vam attributed coins". Just because someone has taken the time to document which combination of die pairs is associated with a certain coin is no reason to have distain for the coin.
Here are some Vam related links oz: http://www.ashmore.com/vamupdate/vam-e.htm http://www.vamlink.com/ http://www.rjrc.com/ As numone said, Every known die pair of Morgan dollars have a VAM number. New ones are discovered all the time. nesvt, who posted above, is credited with a new discovery, complete with a letter from Leroy Van Allen. (I happen to own the 2nd known 1879-S Vam 48a that nesvt discovered ) I am really happy to hear you found my posts informative and helpful. The vast majority of posters here are all willing to share whatever knowledge they have. I have never seen a question here, that someone in the community wasn`t able to answer. We may not always agree on things like grading, slabbing, ebay, speared buffaloes, etc., but there is always something to learn here, no matter how advanced a collector we may think we are. (NEVER claim to be an expert! ) Bruce
